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Old 1 Week Ago
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Willy Willy is offline
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Default Musi on PS, PM, N2O, Turbos....

http://competitionplus.com/drag-raci...did-pro-street
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Yvonne* Yvonne* is offline
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Not to shoot down some of his ideas here but the folks I've talked to in PS have zero desire to run a power adder. If they did, they would've done it a long time ago in another class.

An all turbo class has been tried before. It failed largely due to lack of car count among other things.

While PDRA Pro Nitrous is an outstanding class, there are several reason why its been successful over there that wouldn't translate to an NHRA series.

All the fans I've talked to without question LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the fact that all three power adders are involved in the NHRA series. I think changing that would be a huge mistake. Don't fix what ain't broke.
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de31168 de31168 is offline
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Just because there are 27 cars willing to shut off at half track doesn't mean they would come race NHRA with the same rules and run to the finish line.
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Old 1 Week Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvonne* View Post
All the fans I've talked to without question LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the fact that all three power adders are involved in the NHRA series. I think changing that would be a huge mistake. Don't fix what ain't broke.
NHRA isn't the only one running all three together.

NMCA does as well (on the 1/8th), attracting over 20 Pro mod entries per event. Good mix, but blowers dominate the list. This season 5 of 6 races have been run. Blower cars won 3. Turbo and Nitrous each 1. Runner ups, 3 nitrous, 1 turbo, 1 blower.

The nitrous winner? One of Pat's customers (Billy Banaka). Banaka was also the runner-up at race 5 in Norwalk.
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Yvonne* Yvonne* is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy View Post
NHRA isn't the only one running all three together.
Absolutely! WDRL, XPMW, EOPM, NEOPMA, MWPMS, NMCA, PSCA, SCSN, Shakedown, US Nationals Bradenton...... several orgs running all three. I wouldn't have it any other way.
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racer12306 racer12306 is offline
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This is coming from my pure ignorance of how to get a 4000hp suspended door car down the track.....

How can the, comparatively, under power nitrous cars compete with the blower and turbo cars?

I know there is a weight difference, is there still a transmission difference like the IHRA put into place many many years ago (blowers = 3speed and nitrous = 4 speed)?

Or is it just that they can run harder whereas the blown options have to pull them back so much just to get down the track?
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HEMI_guy HEMI_guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer12306 View Post
This is coming from my pure ignorance of how to get a 4000hp suspended door car down the track.....

How can the, comparatively, under power nitrous cars compete with the blower and turbo cars?
Blower cars - Not allow screw blowers and limit the overdrive on the roots style they do run.


Turbo cars - Boost controllers. I'm not sure but I think NHRA may provide ones that are preset and tamper proof when you arrive at the track.

All 3 combos are limited to 3 speeds transmissions.

The thing about adjusting parity is you can't just go by how many event wins each combo has. There are many other factors that can determine wins like reaction times, breakage, tire shake etc..
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HEMI_guy HEMI_guy is offline
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I respect Musi as an engine builder. But I've never cared for him beyond that. His proposed ideas for P/S are ridiculous. Make the class even more expensive to run and even less like stock??? Though it would bring business to Musi and Sonny Leonard.

Last edited by HEMI_guy; 1 Week Ago at 11:42 AM.
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dragzilla dragzilla is offline
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Seems self serving to me. Hard to believe that a guy that sells that exact combo would want to open himself up to new customers. And his opinion is that is the only way to fix it. Get back to work on the nitrous combo, or hang a different power adder on your car. Don't force your combo on a class that doesn't want you.
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Yvonne* Yvonne* is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer12306 View Post
This is coming from my pure ignorance of how to get a 4000hp suspended door car down the track.....

How can the, comparatively, under power nitrous cars compete with the blower and turbo cars?

I know there is a weight difference, is there still a transmission difference like the IHRA put into place many many years ago (blowers = 3speed and nitrous = 4 speed)?

Or is it just that they can run harder whereas the blown options have to pull them back so much just to get down the track?
Some of this will be broad statements but Pro Mod is about power management. All three power adders have their unique characteristics. Legal Pro Mod (not to be confused with “outlaw” Pro Mod) is about parity. Parity doesn’t mean “the exact same”, which is what I think people get mistakenly hung up on.

So you take three combos that apply their power differently, have different power curves and different short time and top end abilities. You add weight restrictions that are applicable. Nitrous 2425, Blower 2600, Turbo 2650 currently. You assign blower type (Roots only), turbo size (88’s only) and nitrous CI limit 910. You adjust blower OD and turbo boost based on ET’s and MPH. Trans limits assigned are 3 speed max for blower and turbo, 5 speed for nitrous. Body restrictions (must have doors etc). All this is guided by what the goals and priorities are of the series are but from there you can reasonably predict what each combo would average. Of course, the individual tuners all have their styles so you get different outcomes but again it can be reasonably predicted from the existing data.

The big key with parity and three combos is you have to be willing to make adjustments as needed to maintain your goals. In this case RPM watches over and manages the decisions on rule changes. They’ve done an excellent job too. One of the goals is not to let one power adder dominate the competition. It’s a delicate balance but very achievable. Again, the results prove it works. Several different winners, anybody who qualifies can win it, close side by sides, records set, all the best of what racing has to offer.

Now here’s the turbo piece referred to by Musi…. Turbos are the newest power adder relatively speaking. They have really just scratched the surface of their power possibilities in PM in the last ten years. They are getting the majority of rule changes BECAUSE they’re still developing the programs. So it may look a little unfair at times but it’s just a natural course for the rules committee to take in the data numbers as they happen and make any changes if necessary. The bottom line is the power for both nitrous and blowers are more finite than a turbo at this point. It’s a fact. So finding the balance for all three to coexist is important and doable. Banning or separating one adder out is a terrible idea. Say you ban turbos. Then that means you not only lose those cars but you lose the vendors and sponsors associated with that power adder. If you separate a power adder into another class now you have to find new sponsors and another set of funding to support that. That’s a huge burden on racers. You absolutely have to factor in realistic car count available too. When they make decisions about the series they have to think big picture. If the goal is to keep all three combos, which is a worthy goal then a little extra diligence on the rules will help achieve that.

In the case of Pro Stock, adding the MM cars could work BUT it would take due diligence and a lot of data collection to make that happen. I get the feeling that the veterans in that class don’t want to make the effort and in all fairness, it WOULD be a lot of work. But its doable. They worry about angering the purist fan of that class but in reality, a lot of those purists have stopped following already. In any case, I tried to keep this short and hope it adds some good info.
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