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  #31  
Old 1 Week Ago
mossyback mossyback is offline
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^^ a21stud, your point is very well stated. This method would add to the validity of the championship, thus being a true "playoff" among the finalists in the countdown.
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  #32  
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JeffinNY JeffinNY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a21stud View Post

The big improvement would be that they do not race non-countdown cars during the countdown and therefore no team blockers, lay-downs (perceived or real).

Like them or not, in Funny Car DSR would make up fully half of the countdown side of the ladder at most of these races. Doubling the chances of team cars facing each other. Then there's JFR's 3 cars, likely making the whole countdown coming down to one big rivalry with very little chance of anyone outside those 2 teams to have a chance.





Right now some of it is the luck of the ladder draw or the luck of racing a team mate who might be sponsored by a weaker $$ sponsor or who the team owner thinks has a poorer chance of winning the championship and therefore smokes the tires/red lights/no shows/hits a cone/etc. when racing their teammate.



Again, with only 8 cars on the countdown ladder and 7 of them representing only 2 teams, it would be much more likely that teammates face each other more often.
At least Top Fuel ended up with the top 2 cars at the end being semi independent cars.
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  #33  
Old 1 Week Ago
a21stud a21stud is offline
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JeffnNY if your goal is for the independent teams (Not JFR, DSR or CKR) to win the championship, then why not limit team cars to only use 7 cylinders? (Yeah, my tongue is planted firmly in my cheek.)

I get it you want the independants to have a fighting chance and I also like to see Wilkerson, Millican and other one car teams have success. But since single car teams don’t save on bulk buys, can’t share expenses or share information and can’t cross promote sponsors, they will always be at a disadvantage. That won't change just because they race non-countdown cars during the countdown (if they can get in the countdown). I can’t think of anything that would change that as long as there are multi-car teams.

I guess it’s kind of like the Cowboys having better training facilities or higher paid players than the Arizona Cardinals under Bidwell ownership. The Cowboys always had an advantage as Bidwell wouldn’t spend the money. Forest and Morgan Lucas kind of fit the Bidwell way of running their team as they could have doubled the
number of cars if they wanted but instead choose to spend their money differently. Nothing wrong with that.. it's their money.

If Wilkerson chose to chase finding sponsorship funding like Force does, he could have a multi-car team too. It’s Wilkerson’s choice to make. He did run two cars for a few races when funding was there. I would think he would do it in a heartbeat if major sponsorship money fell in his lap.

I just would have a problem with the World Series Champion being determined by the two best teams playing one inning each against the other teams that were already eliminated. The weaker team on paper still won this year but they didn’t get any freebies from the lowest place team to become the World Champs.
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a21stud only refers to the more common 21 stud flathead motors early drag racers coveted before the Chy. Hemi and sbc came along.

Last edited by a21stud; 1 Week Ago at 06:51 PM.
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  #34  
Old 1 Week Ago
JeffinNY JeffinNY is offline
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I meant to refer to the fact that no matter how straight up team cars race each other, there will always be people that assume "team orders" were involved.

If someone can secure enough funding to have the best people and parts for several cars, I'm fine with that. Unfortunately, it's the perception that makes attendance and TV ratings.
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  #35  
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L78MARK L78MARK is offline
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I like Steve and the fact that he is a Straight Shooter and tells it like it is, unfortunately a lot of people can't handle that. Should he have complained about the brake vender... Probably not; but when people are that frustrated they tend to say things before thinking them through. Steve had a whole lot of reason to be frustrated since his car was destroyed. No One was going to beat Torance if that car had not crashed... No One. That thing was a dam bracket car so I can't blame him for being upset. With that being said Congratulations to Brittany Force for a Job well done!! She earned that Championship.....
Mark


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  #36  
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odspice14 odspice14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a21stud View Post
No, the proposal would be for 8 car countdown fields at all six countdown races only made up of countdown cars. They earn points just like now except its only 3 rounds of countdown each race.

The big improvement would be that they do not race non-countdown cars during the countdown and therefore no team blockers, lay-downs (perceived or real).

If 8 Top Fuel and 8 Funny Car aren’t enough for the weekend, then run the non-countdown cars on the other side of the ladder and let the winner of the non-countdown side run the winner of the countdown side for that races Wally and final round win money.

My thought would be to keep ten cars in the countdown and let the 2 slowest countdown qualifiers at each race not qualify for countdown points and therefore run on the non-countdown side of the ladder on Sunday. That would make qualifying super important as two cars are not earning points on Sunday.

Right now some of it is the luck of the ladder draw or the luck of racing a team mate who might be sponsored by a weaker $$ sponsor or who the team owner thinks has a poorer chance of winning the championship and therefore smokes the tires/red lights/no shows/hits a cone/etc. when racing their teammate.

Most importantly, this eliminates those not in the countdown from affecting the countdown just like non-playoff teams in the big leagues can’t affect the World Series.

The current system is what NHRA has decreed and therefore the current World Champions are truly the World Champions. But this system would a very legitimate way to crown the World Champion.
So in that proposal what would you do with drivers that are mathematically eliminated from the championship?
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  #37  
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a21stud a21stud is offline
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Originally Posted by odspice14 View Post
So in that proposal what would you do with drivers that are mathematically eliminated from the championship?
There are multiple answers to that and it depends on NHRA’s needs.

If NHRA perceives the need for more passes for spectators at the countdown races, then run a “B” main type race for the 8 cars that don’t qualify for the countdown and the two countdown cars that don’t qualify for the countdown’s 8 car field. (Maybe run it earlier in the day and save the countdown races for later when the air is better.)

If NHRA perceives the need for sponsorship fulfillment or other issues for those non-countdown cars to run a full 24 races, then run the “B” main type race.

If NHRA perceives their countdown races have enough entertainment with the 10 top cars competing in T/F and 10 in F/C, then run the show with 8 car fields and increase the pressure on teams to make it into the countdown. This reduce the costs and time required for the countdown races while putting full focus on the cars that do make the countdown.

This could have the added benefit of more spectators actually staying for the final round since there would three rounds instead of four. It also would help with the TV time required to show the full race.

If Indy’s pro team doesn’t make the pay-offs, Lucas Oil Stadium is empty for the playoffs. If they do make it, that stadium is packed for each game. It’s the gamble each team owner takes and its part of the excitement. This would be the gamble each race team owner takes with their equipment and staff.

The coaches, players, trainer and other staff for stick and ball teams sit when they don’t make the play-offs, this would be the same. It would be an adjustment for sure, but those folks aren’t guaranteed work anyway. Just ask Bob Vandergriff’s crews.

Willy, sorry for the thread steal.. I didn't think the first comment would keep bringing up more questions.
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  #38  
Old 6 Days Ago
odspice14 odspice14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a21stud View Post
There are multiple answers to that and it depends on NHRA’s needs.

If NHRA perceives the need for more passes for spectators at the countdown races, then run a “B” main type race for the 8 cars that don’t qualify for the countdown and the two countdown cars that don’t qualify for the countdown’s 8 car field. (Maybe run it earlier in the day and save the countdown races for later when the air is better.)

If NHRA perceives the need for sponsorship fulfillment or other issues for those non-countdown cars to run a full 24 races, then run the “B” main type race.

If NHRA perceives their countdown races have enough entertainment with the 10 top cars competing in T/F and 10 in F/C, then run the show with 8 car fields and increase the pressure on teams to make it into the countdown. This reduce the costs and time required for the countdown races while putting full focus on the cars that do make the countdown.

This could have the added benefit of more spectators actually staying for the final round since there would three rounds instead of four. It also would help with the TV time required to show the full race.

If Indy’s pro team doesn’t make the pay-offs, Lucas Oil Stadium is empty for the playoffs. If they do make it, that stadium is packed for each game. It’s the gamble each team owner takes and its part of the excitement. This would be the gamble each race team owner takes with their equipment and staff.

The coaches, players, trainer and other staff for stick and ball teams sit when they don’t make the play-offs, this would be the same. It would be an adjustment for sure, but those folks aren’t guaranteed work anyway. Just ask Bob Vandergriff’s crews.

Willy, sorry for the thread steal.. I didn't think the first comment would keep bringing up more questions.
Wouldn't be long before every sponsor that wasn't getting a full season of exposure left the sport and put their money elsewhere. The stick and ball sports is a completely different animal their playoff systems were established well ahead of big money so their sponsorships contracts are completely different than race deals. Also the sponsorship is based on tv commercials, and exposure from the in game experience and other directly tied to the team. The Pittsburgh Penguins aren't ever going to have questions over not playing because they might not have sponsorship but Shawn Langdon did not race because he didn't.
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  #39  
Old 6 Days Ago
a21stud a21stud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odspice14 View Post
Wouldn't be long before every sponsor that wasn't getting a full season of exposure left the sport and put their money elsewhere. The stick and ball sports is a completely different animal their playoff systems were established well ahead of big money so their sponsorships contracts are completely different than race deals. Also the sponsorship is based on tv commercials, and exposure from the in game experience and other directly tied to the team. The Pittsburgh Penguins aren't ever going to have questions over not playing because they might not have sponsorship but Shawn Langdon did not race because he didn't.
While I haven’t been privy to sponsorship contracts for many years, back in the 70 and 80’s many if not most included performance bonuses and other goals that triggered additional money to be paid.

I was told of one famous racer that received the winner’s purse from AHRA plus his normal sponsorship money AND his sponsor paid him the winner’s purse again for any AHRA race he won. Rumor had it that he would pay his opponent in the final enough money to add to the runner up money so they would take home more money for losing than for winning. Then the famous racer would win the race and get his sponsor’s bonus plus the winner’s purse and the trophy. He also took home more money plus he had the win to help secure more match races and keep his sponsor happy.

I can’t imagine contracts without performance and other bonuses being applicable today. How many pizza places and auto parts stores do you think Courtney and Leah want to visit just because they need a part or are hungry for another pizza? Monster is probably paying a significant bonus to Brittany for winning the Championship. Same with AAA to Height. I imagine that Alan Johnson received a nice bonus for winning Mopar’s mountain race each year.

Many of the smaller sponsorships are typically looking for ways to market their product inexpensively and paying for 18 races of product promotion might fit their needs better than 24. Not sure if cat litter really would want to pony up a Championship bonus as they probably get just as much product recognition and sales by being there as they would from winning races. Especially when three of the six countdown races are in repeat markets.

Any company with minimal legal assistance would have something in the contract that changes things if the team folds or doesn’t show up for races, etc. Changes in the number of races by not qualifying for the countdown would be the equivalent of “not showing up”.

Contracts are adjustable and this might actually help bring in more sponsors by making it 18 race affordable. This would definitely make the sponsorship of the countdown fuel cars more valuable during the countdown because they would only share the stage and TV time with 20 cars at each race instead of the 32 that show up now.
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a21stud only refers to the more common 21 stud flathead motors early drag racers coveted before the Chy. Hemi and sbc came along.

Last edited by a21stud; 6 Days Ago at 04:39 PM.
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