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  #11  
Old 1 Week Ago
Roger Gates Roger Gates is offline
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Originally Posted by a21stud View Post
If NHRA had quit fixing things that weren’t broken:
Still be using a flagman start
No VHT or prepped track
No win lights, scoreboards or instant replay
Only portable toilets
Still be using push starts
Any rear gear or cubic inch motor with tire destroying speeds.
No highly trained and consistent Safety Safari
Only the US Nationals on TV (er.. only The Chevrolet Performance Parts US Nationals)
No lady racers
Etc…

Hemi and Roger Gates, do you really believe drag racing should 100% be like it was in 1960? Any ladies want to comment about not being allowed to race or even be in the pits?



My suggestion was just for thought as the idea that NHRA would make a change as major as this would be… like letting women drive! (Yes, I know it would never be allowed.)
This suggests that all the things you listed were not broken. That is not what my response was about. There are enough things that are just fine without making wholesale changes for the sake of changes. The things I see listed above to me are not CHANGES, but upgrades which are for the betterment of the sport and/or the experience. What I see in this thread that are not broken are things like having the ability to have an equal number of attempts in both lanes on marginal tracks or changing the qualifying or running format. Pretty soon there will be "Everybody gets a participation Trophy" with some of these changes. Some suggestions are going backwards just to see a change. Things that ARE broken do need to be changed, but I guess that we all don't see what is broken and what is improving the competition or experience.
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  #12  
Old 1 Week Ago
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de31168 de31168 is offline
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I don't know a thing about golf, never really knew how it became a popular niche thing as it has.

I do know that I don't want any rules or procedures from golf, baseball, basketball, football, or any other sport to affect NHRA. It's bad enough we have to have a "countdown" to follow NASCAR.

The procedures have evolved to what they are. The top 12 rule was terrible but brought into place due to saturday smoke fests. I was at Joliet that Saturday that 1 nitro car made it down the track in 2 saturday sessions. It was hot and it sucked.

However! I think if you want pedal fests you're going to get Round 1 of Nitro every qualifying session. A bomb every pair or a overdriven wall smacker because "We needed a better average so I couldn't lift." It's bad enough every race is 3.6 to 4.0 seconds of on the throttle engine time and 3 minutes of waiting for it to happen again. See how many people turn and walk away when its 3.6 to 4.0 seconds of on the throttle engine time and 25 minutes before it happens again. No thanks! I hate aborted up in smoke runs as much as the next guy, but that's racing. If you want to see them shoot for the moon then buy a Fri or Sat ticket and if you want to see the all out race to the finish come on Sunday.

Also this really only applies to 2 classes of the 10 to 15 classes that compete all day friday and saturday.

Give them traction control. Let them put wing angle in it. Give them other tuning options to get them down the track.

And it still doesn't address the low buck guys that make 1 shot to be in the field, or 2 at best. With the new format you can go to 8 car fields in TF and you might get a full 16 in FC sometimes.
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  #13  
Old 1 Week Ago
a21stud a21stud is offline
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Originally Posted by Roger Gates View Post
This suggests that all the things you listed were not broken. That is not what my response was about. There are enough things that are just fine without making wholesale changes for the sake of changes. The things I see listed above to me are not CHANGES, but upgrades which are for the betterment of the sport and/or the experience. What I see in this thread that are not broken are things like having the ability to have an equal number of attempts in both lanes on marginal tracks or changing the qualifying or running format. Pretty soon there will be "Everybody gets a participation Trophy" with some of these changes. Some suggestions are going backwards just to see a change. Things that ARE broken do need to be changed, but I guess that we all don't see what is broken and what is improving the competition or experience.
Yes, I am suggesting another "upgrade" where more people would want to enter a race car in an NHRA Pro Class. An upgrade where there would be more "full passes" and fewer "up in smoke passes" as that would hurt too much. The crew chief that puts it on kill when not necessary may drop 8-10 spots on the qualifying ladder due to his driver not pedaling well. Making a driver pedal would become a crew chief's worst enemy and a driver’s best asset to making an erroring crew chief happy.

Now we would see more professionalism as all teams would want clean passes every lap. The fans would not see any "brap" and coast passes unless there is just 16 or less cars and the "brap/coaster" didn't care that he ended up #16.

This would also improve the qualifying chances of the guy with the bad lane during Friday night’s good air session. He gets the good lane during Friday morning’s bad air conditions and the guy in the other lane needs to run decently in the bad lane with bad air so his total qualifying time doesn't suffer. That makes for consistently (fairer) qualifying for all as both passes in both lanes would be counted. Daytime hot track passes would still be slower than the night good air of course, but this would improve things in two ways. It would give the crowd full loud pedal passes during all four sessions and teach the crew chief how to get down a greasy, hot racetrack without tire smoke. The training on Friday and Saturday afternoons would make for better hot track Sunday eliminations too.

We have all seen a quality racer miss the field due to a rained out session Friday night and then miss the setup on Saturday's good air night session and not qualify. That racer might make the field if his two morning rounds were added in where as it is now he has no chance. It's why the whiners got the 12 car Friday qualifying rule in. The big names didn't want to be bumped out on Saturday when they sat 9, 10, 11 or 12 on Friday. They also wanted 4 guaranteed open spots on Saturday when they “brap/coasted” twice on Friday. All this stuff goes by the wayside when all laps count.

Time for everybody to pull up their big boy pants and show the fans 4 clean runs that are better than the other guys. Today’s rules allow everyone to just throw hand grenade setups at the track and hope they can get just one to stick. Then they don’t know what to do on Sunday when the weather is different than their banzai lap that worked.

Four “on kill” qualifying passes just lead to this:
1. Blown up parts (On kill or not worth doing since "clean but slower" run doesn’t mean anything now.)
2. Lots of tire smoke and coast passes (Cause it don’t count unless its quick.)
3. Skipped hot track sessions (Cause it don’t count unless its quicker than Q2 and Q4.)
4. Fewer people who want to enter a team because of parts attrition and other crazy costs.

Fans only see a few full passes in Friday and Saturday’s first sessions because:
1. There isn’t a reason to push it when the tracks not on kill too.
2. If you can’t get your “go for it” tuneup to stick and go low, only those with deep pockets will practice for hot weather Sunday’s rounds.)

Yeah, it's different but so is Friday's 12 car qualifying and the Countdown. Time to eliminate brap/coasting and give us four 1000' passes no matter what the track conditions are.
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  #14  
Old 1 Week Ago
a21stud a21stud is offline
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I had not thought about the increase in safety this would add. Not making every pass on full kill so you didn't smoke the tires and drop spots would add significantly to racer safety.

Even with this method the crew chief would need to push the envelope so he qualifies well, but not to the point of blowing a run. Banging the blower at 200' might add 12 seconds to his total qualifying time and hurt him twice. Spending the car owners $$ plus maybe not make the field.

But the current practice of constantly going for the kill and coast is costly in oil down, driver safety and a poor show for paying fans watching smoke'm n coast runs.
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  #15  
Old 1 Week Ago
Reinhart Reinhart is offline
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So you think Saturday in Pomona would have been more exciting if I had said when Matt Hagan comes to the line for his 4th and final qualifying run that:

"If Matt wants to retain the #1 position he needs to run a 4.35 at 284 mph, because that will put his average time better than Robert Hight."

Sorry, that doesn't sound quite as exciting as what he had to do, and did to set the track record and take the #1 back from Robert who had just taken it from him two pair before. I kind of liked the 3.82 at 336 mph to finish the night.

Alan
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  #16  
Old 6 Days Ago
a21stud a21stud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhart View Post
So you think Saturday in Pomona would have been more exciting if I had said when Matt Hagan comes to the line for his 4th and final qualifying run that:

"If Matt wants to retain the #1 position he needs to run a 4.35 at 284 mph, because that will put his average time better than Robert Hight."

Sorry, that doesn't sound quite as exciting as what he had to do, and did to set the track record and take the #1 back from Robert who had just taken it from him two pair before. I kind of liked the 3.82 at 336 mph to finish the night.

Alan
If Hagen had the field covered by a ½ second after Q3 (or an average of .16 seconds per pass) you would have had plenty to talk about:
1. How come Hagen is sooo far ahead of everybody else? There are whispers in the pits about his team cheating but nothing has been found… yet.
2. This is a major upset as all of the CKR and JFR team cars plus the independent teams are averaging more than a FULL tenth and a half slower ET’s than just the one DSR team.
3. This is reminiscent of Don Garlit’s 5.63 second record run that stood for 7 years. Will this be the new standard that lasts 7 years?
4. Why is only one DSR car running that much quicker than all the other team cars?
5. Isn’t Hagen’s team sharing data with the other DSR teams anymore?
6. Why is Dickie Venables sporting a new black eye?
7. The Police are currently hauling John Force to jail for attacking Pedregon after Pedregon went to Forces pits and just started laughing uncontrollably at him. The Police are having trouble finding out if Pedregon wants to press charges as he can’t stop laughing. We will have a spectator’s video of the altercation for you shortly.
8. We apologize in advance for the delay in 1st round tomorrow as both Connie Kalitta and John Force have just fired all of their crew chiefs.

Seriously, the Olympics use total qualifying times for multiple sports and the competition is typically very tight. Rodeo does the same with some of their events and it adds tension and excitement.

Yes, there will be a time that someone in the last pair has everybody covered. That happens a lot now. It’s not every race that the last run changes the #1. How many times have you heard (or said) “He didn’t make it and XYZ racer will retain the #1 position for tomorrows 1st round of T/F or F/C or P/S”.

Don’t look at the announcer’s glass as half empty because it would be over half full. There would be plenty to talk about as all runs are now important and not just the lowest run of the weekend. The fans would see many more complete runs with less downtime.

The Positives:
1. Less downtime as all teams would have very strong reasons to keep the track dry.
2. Team education on how to get down any quality of racetrack rather than just blow off a session with a hot, sticky track. (Spectators see real action every session and not just brap/smoke/coast.)
3. Savings on parts since it wouldn’t make sense to put it on kill and spin/bang the blower unless you were very confident it would work and willing to accept the consequences if it didn’t.
4. Incentive for new racers to make four clean runs with the knowledge that some of the ultra competitive top teams might smoke the tires and drop to the bottom of the ladder. Currently giving the top teams 4 banzai passes to get just one to stick eliminates anyone new from any success. (Yes, JFR, DSR and CKR won’t like this but its better entertainment when the cars make it down the track and the tractors are parked.)
5. Improved safety as the driver wouldn’t have to overdrive a marginal setup IF these additional rules were implemented.-
“Total of Four Laps Qualifying Time” Safety Rule:
After a driver take the tree (red or green) and then smokes the tires, bangs the blower or has any other non-disqualifying issue, the driver will receive a 5.500 second time and not have to take chances of damaging the car, the lane or the car in the other lane. If however, the driver has a problem but recovers for a time below 5.500 seconds, the lower time stands.
This eliminates drivers from having to over drive the car for the conditions they’ve found themselves in just to keep from collecting a 9 second time.
If the driver crosses the centerline or breaks any other disqualifying rule, the driver will receive a 7 second qualifying time for that pass.
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a21stud only refers to the more common 21 stud flathead motors early drag racers coveted before the Chy. Hemi and sbc came along.
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  #17  
Old 6 Days Ago
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de31168 de31168 is offline
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The NHRA presented by Barnum and Bailey! I like the sound of that.
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  #18  
Old 6 Days Ago
Paul Songas Paul Songas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a21stud View Post
The value of a Friday ticket would increase if we knew every racer in Friday's two qualifiers were going to pedal if they smoke the tires and would never coast threw the traps. Every car, every pair, would be a real race to the finish line.

(And we would want the qualifying win lights to work.)
You saw what happens when you get everybody pedaling their cars first round Sunday in Pomona. No thanks.
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  #19  
Old 6 Days Ago
a21stud a21stud is offline
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Originally Posted by Paul Songas View Post
You saw what happens when you get everybody pedaling their cars first round Sunday in Pomona. No thanks.
Your right as that was my first thought on changing to totalling the 4 qualifying round ETs.

But thinking further with the comments from Alan R. and adding the safety rules at the bottom of post #16 would eliminate most if not all overdriving and smokefests. This would make clean passes more important than they are now and eliminate Pomona's smokefest. It would be more professional and better racing while keeping the tractors parked.

Regarding post #17's Barnum and Bailey comment:
The Olympics are Barnum and Bailey?
Yeah, the rodeo is close to the circus (they have rodeo clowns) but the Olympics and the PGA isn't.

I said that JFR wouldn't be for this but after watching Brit get slapped around with the car on kill, he might be a little more interested in the safety and professionalism this would bring as all teams in both lanes would have huge incentives to make it to the other end in every session. Garlits would probably like this as he hated the "distroy a bullet" every pass mentality that became the norm to be low qualifier and he's a visionary, free thinker.

I know people are resistant to change. Like anything else, it needs to be discussed and modified where needed but not just ignored because "we've always done it that way". Then we need to go back to flag starts and push or roller starters. (Wonder how many on here saw roller starters in use?)
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a21stud only refers to the more common 21 stud flathead motors early drag racers coveted before the Chy. Hemi and sbc came along.
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  #20  
Old 6 Days Ago
Reinhart Reinhart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a21stud View Post
If Hagen had the field covered by a ½ second after Q3 (or an average of .16 seconds per pass) you would have had plenty to talk about:
1. How come Hagen is sooo far ahead of everybody else? There are whispers in the pits about his team cheating but nothing has been found… yet.
2. This is a major upset as all of the CKR and JFR team cars plus the independent teams are averaging more than a FULL tenth and a half slower ET’s than just the one DSR team.
3. This is reminiscent of Don Garlit’s 5.63 second record run that stood for 7 years. Will this be the new standard that lasts 7 years?
4. Why is only one DSR car running that much quicker than all the other team cars?
5. Isn’t Hagen’s team sharing data with the other DSR teams anymore?
6. Why is Dickie Venables sporting a new black eye?
7. The Police are currently hauling John Force to jail for attacking Pedregon after Pedregon went to Forces pits and just started laughing uncontrollably at him. The Police are having trouble finding out if Pedregon wants to press charges as he can’t stop laughing. We will have a spectator’s video of the altercation for you shortly.
8. We apologize in advance for the delay in 1st round tomorrow as both Connie Kalitta and John Force have just fired all of their crew chiefs.

Seriously, the Olympics use total qualifying times for multiple sports and the competition is typically very tight. Rodeo does the same with some of their events and it adds tension and excitement.

Yes, there will be a time that someone in the last pair has everybody covered. That happens a lot now. It’s not every race that the last run changes the #1. How many times have you heard (or said) “He didn’t make it and XYZ racer will retain the #1 position for tomorrows 1st round of T/F or F/C or P/S”.

Don’t look at the announcer’s glass as half empty because it would be over half full. There would be plenty to talk about as all runs are now important and not just the lowest run of the weekend. The fans would see many more complete runs with less downtime.

The Positives:
1. Less downtime as all teams would have very strong reasons to keep the track dry.
2. Team education on how to get down any quality of racetrack rather than just blow off a session with a hot, sticky track. (Spectators see real action every session and not just brap/smoke/coast.)
3. Savings on parts since it wouldn’t make sense to put it on kill and spin/bang the blower unless you were very confident it would work and willing to accept the consequences if it didn’t.
4. Incentive for new racers to make four clean runs with the knowledge that some of the ultra competitive top teams might smoke the tires and drop to the bottom of the ladder. Currently giving the top teams 4 banzai passes to get just one to stick eliminates anyone new from any success. (Yes, JFR, DSR and CKR won’t like this but its better entertainment when the cars make it down the track and the tractors are parked.)
5. Improved safety as the driver wouldn’t have to overdrive a marginal setup IF these additional rules were implemented.-
“Total of Four Laps Qualifying Time” Safety Rule:
After a driver take the tree (red or green) and then smokes the tires, bangs the blower or has any other non-disqualifying issue, the driver will receive a 5.500 second time and not have to take chances of damaging the car, the lane or the car in the other lane. If however, the driver has a problem but recovers for a time below 5.500 seconds, the lower time stands.
This eliminates drivers from having to over drive the car for the conditions they’ve found themselves in just to keep from collecting a 9 second time.
If the driver crosses the centerline or breaks any other disqualifying rule, the driver will receive a 7 second qualifying time for that pass.

You do realize that Brittany's car had smoked the tires on Friday Q1, and she shut it off. On Sunday she peddled it and you're calling that a better result?

And in my first post hypothetically, Hagan is that far in front because the other teams tried to go for it on one run and it didn't stick where as Hagan's team made the first three runs at 4.05, 4.12 to 4.20 and never pushed at all.

Personally I don't mind a guy striking out a lot if I know he's ALWAYS swinging for a home run. And when he does hit the home runs, they get cheered a LOT LOUDER than the guys who hit for a better average, but never puts one over the fence. Remember Barry Bonds chasing the Home Run record a few years back? Now, can you tell me who on the team had the best average that year?

Alan
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