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  #21  
Old 01-04-2018
bayouboy25 bayouboy25 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mac4264 View Post
Easier said then done. I have said at least 100 times on here that would be the nail in the coffin. Has nothing with us not wanting to do that but itís the biggest change over expense and then where is it going to leave people. You still havenít fixed the car either. Car is easier to fix and will get more mileage out of it from fans. If we do what we have done with this rule and then start to fix the cars maybe and itís a big maybe the factories will come back to the table and then we can use there money to fix the engine. This was my thought with this months back and why Iím was on board with it.
If you don't mind, can you elaborate on what you mean by "fix the car"? I assume you mean the look (make them look closer to stock than pro mod).
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  #22  
Old 01-04-2018
Roger Gates Roger Gates is offline
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Originally Posted by Mac4264 View Post
Your right on the rev limiter part. But I have read and heard so much negative about the Holley system. Could it run a formula 1 motor probably not. But tell me what system would make one of these engines better. I’m all ears. Better yet I invite anyone to come down and dyno one of these systems if you can make more average power taking the Holley off and bolting xyz system on I will shut up and go away if not you owe me a dyno session and probably extra for my time I’m going to waste.
The difference here is that In my opinion it is more than a bolt on swap and more than having everyone use the same system. It is way more than just running one session on a Dyno. Injector placement is probably way more important than the throttle blade (or maybe a barrel) which means much higher fuel pressures or even direct injection. This is not a slam on the Holly system, but it is questioning the stifling of ingenuity. Yes - manifolding would be different as well as fuel pumps etc., but in the end it may be advantageous to getting the power (Torque) back with the restrictions on RPM which was what the thread is asking about as to why there has been no quicker or faster runs in a long time.
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  #23  
Old 01-04-2018
Mac4264 Mac4264 is offline
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Originally Posted by Roger Gates View Post
The difference here is that In my opinion it is more than a bolt on swap and more than having everyone use the same system. It is way more than just running one session on a Dyno. Injector placement is probably way more important than the throttle blade (or maybe a barrel) which means much higher fuel pressures or even direct injection. This is not a slam on the Holly system, but it is questioning the stifling of ingenuity. Yes - manifolding would be different as well as fuel pumps etc., but in the end it may be advantageous to getting the power (Torque) back with the restrictions on RPM which was what the thread is asking about as to why there has been no quicker or faster runs in a long time.
Lot of what your saying is and was issues on carbs too ďpackagingĒ it has to fit on a car or under some type of hood. I guess the reality is and biggest discussion that is here is money has been and always will be. Guess 2 years ago NHRA mandated the efi stuff and did it with the attempt to not let cost get out of control. If they would have let any efi system to be used and then KB would have done what they did last few years everyone would have ended up with whatever system they had anyway or thought they had. So how does little guy starting out even attempt that. How does one who never had efi experience even start to direct inject there stuff. I could have and would have tried for sure given the chance dam well knowing could leave guys behind. So that brings to the main deal I read on the forums is how cost have gotten out of control and little guy canít do it. But some of the same guys that complain about the cost complain cause the cars donít go faster. I got your point about how they are slow but it was attempt to cut cost.
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  #24  
Old 01-04-2018
oldracer oldracer is offline
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It's entertaining that this banter still goes on. Money has finally got what it wanted in racing all along. Money doesn't like getting beat by someone that can out think them hence the rules packages we have evolved to in all forms of racing from drag racing to roundy round to the road racers. Money doesn't like to loose in any sport, it is sort of a right they impose because, well, they have money and should win.
The fuel classes are the ultimate moron class as they brag about blowing up a $50k body lke it was a bag of skittles. The guy in the stands that only makes $30K a year really appreciates this, and the fan interest goes down. The grand illusion that they are doing something wonderfull continues.
Pro Stock isn't much different, the current rules package makes it so. It's currently so scienced out that the costs have to esculate because it takes high $$ r&d to make the next .001 sec. gain. To me the rules have been manipulated that way over the years to make sure high $$ will win. Wind tunnel developed body packages, you need this, need that. Sad to say that Bob Glidden may have been relegated to an "also ran" in this environment. He played with real cars not high $$ aerodynamic blobs.
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  #25  
Old 01-04-2018
Mac4264 Mac4264 is offline
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Originally Posted by bayouboy25 View Post
If you don't mind, can you elaborate on what you mean by "fix the car"? I assume you mean the look (make them look closer to stock than pro mod).
Yes factory style car with current power plants. Best example is Ryan Martins car street outlaws with our engines for now. No old cars everything late model. This would take time but can be done. Car really is cheaper part of doing this one reason why never did mind spending the money to build new car cause top sportsman guys will buy them from you when you want fresh tubing. Little bit of a slap in the face when guys say we should just go do that kind of racing. I can bracket race 15 miles from my house with lots less headaches.
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  #26  
Old 01-04-2018
Racemaster Racemaster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac4264 View Post
Yes factory style car with current power plants. Best example is Ryan Martins car street outlaws with our engines for now. No old cars everything late model. This would take time but can be done. Car really is cheaper part of doing this one reason why never did mind spending the money to build new car cause top sportsman guys will buy them from you when you want fresh tubing. Little bit of a slap in the face when guys say we should just go do that kind of racing. I can bracket race 15 miles from my house with lots less headaches.
So you think that you will shame Ford and FCA back in by using GM engines in Mustangs and Darts?

You and your pals have caused NHRA to approve non existent Ford parts. That's pretty stupid. So you want to build up a rapport with Ford. Doing this will not help.

Your demise is imminent.
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  #27  
Old 01-04-2018
Yvonne* Yvonne* is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HEMI_guy View Post
And that was just one of his contradictions.
Yes, he had a few in there.
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  #28  
Old 01-04-2018
DynoGrump DynoGrump is offline
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if the rules were changed such that the exact factory body dimensions were required, isn't it possible one style may be inherently better suited for 200mph racing than the others, since the manufacturers design more for vanity & style than aero performance. everyone seems to hate the current pro stock body style template but its kind of a 'necessary evil' in order to make all styles equal. once a particular stock body style demonstrates an advantage, then everyone will favor that car and we end up right back where we are today. Remember the early pro mod days when the 80% of the field was made up of 67 corvettes !!
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  #29  
Old 01-04-2018
a21stud a21stud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoGrump View Post
if the rules were changed such that the exact factory body dimensions were required, isn't it possible one style may be inherently better suited for 200mph racing than the others, since the manufacturers design more for vanity & style than aero performance. everyone seems to hate the current pro stock body style template but its kind of a 'necessary evil' in order to make all styles equal. once a particular stock body style demonstrates an advantage, then everyone will favor that car and we end up right back where we are today. Remember the early pro mod days when the 80% of the field was made up of 67 corvettes !!
Which is exactly what the FS/XX cars are dealing with rather successfully right now. The wide-body Dodge is the quickest but all three are pretty equal.

The adjustment that could be used by NHRA to work towards aero equality would be the wings. They could be slightly different for each body style in an attempt to create aero equality.

Then it would be back to work on drive train power and efficiency to determine who has the better mousetrap.

Radial tire racing has 1990 Fox body coupes with a little wing running 200 mph in the 1/8th mile on small tires. NHRA's decree of lump bodies for safety isn't a legit argument.
__________________
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a21stud only refers to the more common 21 stud flathead motors early drag racers coveted before the Chy. Hemi and sbc came along.
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  #30  
Old 01-04-2018
Thecapnredfish Thecapnredfish is offline
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I will elaborate on my post making cars look like the sticker says they are. Face it. They all look the same just like TF and FC, but don't come with the entertainment factor. Rediculously fast and loud. That's ok. I'm cool with the performance of PS. I want to see a camaro, mustang, pinto or whatever else you can think of. I will then be more interested. 80's and 90's had some extremely ugly cars, but if you were a ford guy it gave you something to root for. I don't know what these blobs they are running are. But it's a little insulting for you(NHRA)to want me thinking it is a camaro.
Like the Kcup deal now. Box fits 12, but now has 10 packed loose inside. Not buying it. Packaged wrong. Make sense?
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