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  #21  
Old 09-12-2017
A Poole A Poole is offline
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Originally Posted by oldracer View Post
Therfore let's keep the car counts low so they don't have to manage a cluster. Maybe they can get them low enough that they don't have to manage anything.
Here's exactly why they can't combine current P/S cars and mountain motor cars. The constant quest for that all important 'parity'.

https://dragillustrated.com/nhra-tec...ty-adjustment/
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  #22  
Old 09-12-2017
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Eugene Gray Eugene Gray is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve1118 View Post
Pro Stock has always been an outlaw Super Stock. One of the major attractions is that it was attainable to rank and file racers.

But, have it your way. NHRA has proven that it cannot survive on a spectator only gate. Just not enough spectator only base to support it. Us oldsters that get it keep saying that, and you guys keep trying to prove us wrong. It's still true. Like many of us, I was at Indy Wed-Friday, and left after the Hemi Shootout on Friday night. I notice in the pics there was a lot of open aluminum on Sunday and Monday.

But, I don't care, really. Keep it your way. Keep whistling past the graveyard. Keep telling yourself that. Keep your cookie cutter, look alike race cars driven by 20 year old somethings with PR coaches.

Just made a suggestion. Keep what you are doing. Keep telling yourself that next year is the year the spectator gate alone supports it. I really would like to see NHRA run a Pro only event, and see how many pure spectators actually attend. Love to see it. If they thought it would work, they'd have tried it. But, they haven't. Very telling.
First off I'm an oldster myself, and second off I didn't say anything about what I wanted to see changed in Pro stock so I don't know where you are getting the "it's my way or the you guys attitude from". I just pointed out that most of what was highlighted pointed to another super stock class. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the drop in car counts and the amount of aluminum in the stands when pro stock, super stock, comp eliminator, or any of the throttle stop classes run. But, I will say that I don't think changing to a stock looking car will increase the fan base that much "if any" and it might even lose some. But, if they want to try it and it works then I'm all for it.
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  #23  
Old 09-12-2017
HEMI_guy HEMI_guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve1118 View Post
Like many of us, I was at Indy Wed-Friday, and left after the Hemi Shootout on Friday night. I notice in the pics there was a lot of open aluminum on Sunday and Monday.
I know a number of people that go on Friday only just to see the shootout. With the pros only running one Q on Friday and much later in the day, the only reason I try to make it to Indy early on Fridy is to see the shootout.

That open aluminum is specifically in the reserved section. The people to fill those seats are there, they're just too cheap to pay the extra to sit in them.
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  #24  
Old 09-12-2017
Yvonne* Yvonne* is offline
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Originally Posted by 2MNYTYS View Post
Here is an idea that would help get more cars to participate in Pro Stock. How about NHRA say that there will be no major rule changes for the class for XX number of years. The way they (NHRA) are going about it now, no one wants to commit to spend money on a class that could have a major change in rules at the drop of a hat. I know of two former Pro Stock racers that have not raced for the past few years because of this very thing. They have all the necessary equipment and cars, but they don't want to spend a bunch of money on engines and converting to EFI only to potentially have a major rule change the next month.
At the drop of a hat? The EFI rule change took YEARS to be approved and implemented. I don't know your friends but what I find with a large majority of racers who claim to oppose rule changes and quit a class is its not really about the rule change. Most are looking for a way to quit racing and are waiting for an excuse. They don't like to admit to their friends that they just want to quit.
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  #25  
Old 09-12-2017
Roger Gates Roger Gates is offline
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Originally Posted by HEMI_guy View Post
those slant 6's were known for their longivity. back in the days when V8's were known to be junk by 100K those 225 slants were knowb to go 225-250k.
Just happen to have a 1962 Valiant 2 door hardtop with a 225 slant 6 and a 4 speed in my stuff. Drive it about once every week or two. About as much fun as anything else and as ugly as it is I get stopped and asked about it a lot. By the way It seems to be working out quite well! It is just like a Timex it takes a liking & keeps on ticking.
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  #26  
Old 09-12-2017
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RVT1000 RVT1000 is offline
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Originally Posted by A Poole View Post
Here's exactly why they can't combine current P/S cars and mountain motor cars. The constant quest for that all important 'parity'.

https://dragillustrated.com/nhra-tec...ty-adjustment/
I'm not sure that I follow. Are you suggesting that the NHRA should not modify the Pro Mod rules in an attempt to achieve some parity? I don't see how that is possible when there are three distinct combinations. Or is it that you are suggesting there should be only one combination like the current situation in Pro Stock?

And while I understand it would not be a slam-dunk, I would be interested in seeing mountain motor cars allowed in Pro Stock. One of the things that I like the most about Pro Mod is the different combinations.
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  #27  
Old 09-12-2017
Twostep Twostep is offline
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Originally Posted by Eugene Gray View Post
But, I will say that I don't think changing to a stock looking car will increase the fan base that much "if any" and it might even lose some.
It won't, Eugene. I realize they're a little slower, but the stands don't fill up when the factory SS cars start running...us hardcores might rather see stock-appearing bodies, but us hardcores aren't what's needed - which is more fans, tv coverage, prize money, more manufacturers involved and SPONSORS. And casual fans aren't hung up on stock or non-stock looking PS bodies.

If I ran a large company and someone came to me right now trying to convince me my company would see a substantial ROI by sponsoring someone's Pro Stock Camaro, even though I'm a lifetime drag racer and I personally like the class, I'd have to laugh...'cause right now, there ain't no way in hell. And that has to change.

It's easy to complain to Graham Light or Peter Clifford, but those two men could easily turn around and say "OK, what's YOUR solution?" "Well...I dunno, Peter...maybe change some rules..." The answer is, in my case, I have no satisfactory answer.
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  #28  
Old 09-12-2017
2MNYTYS 2MNYTYS is offline
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Originally Posted by Yvonne* View Post
At the drop of a hat? The EFI rule change took YEARS to be approved and implemented. I don't know your friends but what I find with a large majority of racers who claim to oppose rule changes and quit a class is its not really about the rule change. Most are looking for a way to quit racing and are waiting for an excuse. They don't like to admit to their friends that they just want to quit.
Not talking about EFI exactly. But that was a pretty quick decision on NHRA's part once Peter Clifford was elevated to the helm. Announced in Denver 2015 for a Pomona 2016 start date is pretty quick. Even quicker when the parts from Holley were not even available until Jan 2016.

Talking about the fact that Graham Light and the rest of NHRA are constantly throwing out teasers as to how they are going to treat Pro Stock. All of the rumors in the past 12 months: stock bodies vs current bodies, stock engine platforms vs 500 CI, N/A vs forced induction, 500 CI vs mountain motor, 18 races vs 24 races. No one of these rumored changes will make a positive change to the class.

Don't forget the rule changes that started this downward spiral: EFI vs Carb, long wheelie bars vs short, front of car vs rear, engine covers or no engine covers and 10,500 rpm vs 12,000 rpm. Not one of these rule changes had a positive change to the class.

As for the people I know, they could care less how people think of them or how they spend their money or if they race or not. But they do have semis full of equipment and new cars that have never been down the track. All of the equipment is sellable to a number of people should they decide to quit racing, 500 CI EFI NHRA Pro Stock engines, not so much anymore. So with no certainty on the direction of the class why would they want to invest their money. If NHRA wanted to see the class continue to be strong and attract new and former racers they would put a stop to the rumors not encourage them.

But Pro Stock is the only class that is in trouble right? Top Fuel, Funny Car, Alcohol/Nitro dragster, Alcohol Funny Car, Comp those classes are all super strong with above average car counts at all events right? WRONG, anything that has an engine in it and is used to entertain is going by the wayside to make room for more smart phones.
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  #29  
Old 09-12-2017
A Poole A Poole is offline
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Originally Posted by RVT1000 View Post
I'm not sure that I follow. Are you suggesting that the NHRA should not modify the Pro Mod rules in an attempt to achieve some parity? I don't see how that is possible when there are three distinct combinations. Or is it that you are suggesting there should be only one combination like the current situation in Pro Stock?

And while I understand it would not be a slam-dunk, I would be interested in seeing mountain motor cars allowed in Pro Stock. One of the things that I like the most about Pro Mod is the different combinations.
No,my point was not about parity in PM. It was about bringing in the mountain motor P/S cars into the current P/S class as somebody suggested to save P/S. They would have to add weight to them and it would a continuing quest to achieve parity. I'm for saving the class but I think it's done.
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  #30  
Old 09-12-2017
a21stud a21stud is offline
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NHRA goal isn't about safety or "keeping racing off the street".
NHRA's goal is to put on a show to draw a paying crowd that draws advertising money too.
It's about the money! It's about the money and that's why the NHRA Board of Directors isn't loaded with car guys.
Even Clifford came up as a bean counter. (Yes, he's "Light" years better than Compton. )

If their goal isn't money, NHRA might as well go to 1/4 mile drags with low powered, fuel efficient, smog friendly, tree hugger happy vehicles that can get stopped. (But that means no filled stands and no big checks for anyone... however, the racing would be safe.)

NHRA barely has enough cars/teams/sponsors/etc. in Top Fuel, Funny Car/Pro Stock and Pro Stock Bike isn't that far behind.
But they have gobs of cars available in Pro Mod that was actually started by IHRA's Ted Jones and Bret Kepner back in the 80's and is currently living well beyond early expectations.
It's the only "Pro" class that's not stagnant in car count, spectator appeal and seems to have sponsorship $$ on the rise.


I think it's because Pro Mod has these advantages:
Pro Mod has starter leagues/races available for new people to learn the Pro Mod ropes easier.
Pro Mod doesn't require huge money to go fast, be cool and have fun.
Pro Mod doesn't have to be a full time job.
Pro Mod puts on a wild and woolly show where you never know if the car will go straight or at all. It's unpredictable.

The reverse is Pro Stock.
Pro Stock is having problems with car count, spectator's staying in the stands and issues discussed here for too long.
Pro Stock does require huge money, time, crew for little money return.
Pro Stock is a full time job if you chase the NHRA crown.
Pro Stock is sewing machine predictable without big burnouts, wheel-stands or 1150' long 1000' runs.

If G. Light and Clifford are worried about NHRA's show, they should be interested in this Question:
What type of class or cars would excite many people enough for them to:
Pay to watch
Buy/build and race
Sponsor a car in or class of
Pay attention to who the winners and losers of the class are.

And Mr. LIght and Mr. Clifford should be asking this:
What is that new class/car type and how would NHRA get it started quickly and successfully?
Or do they just eliminate another item that their current sponsor's sell like hood scoops and carbs on Pro Stocks?
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