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  #101  
Old 02-04-2012
1/4 Miler 1/4 Miler is offline
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The canopy's windscreen is not made from glass nor Lexan. It is made of a polycarbonate type material that is molded, hardened then anti-fog, etc. treated. The impact resistance, scratch resistance, etc. of the material is well documented by Standard ASTM Tests.

Note that the mounting of the windscreen to the lid frame is done in a very particular, sequenced manner so as not to induce stress into the windscreen that could cause later cracking ..... you don't just drill holes in it and then screw it onto the lid frame.

Any more particulars should come from Aerodine.
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  #102  
Old 02-04-2012
Donn2390 Donn2390 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy View Post
Yet Schumacher stated on WFO, regarding the windscreen portion of the canopy...."This is protective glass. You can hit it with a sledgehammer."
Glass is a generic descriptive term, like him saying he steps on the gas. There is no glass on the car, and there is no gas in the car...!!
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  #103  
Old 02-04-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn2390 View Post
Glass is a generic descriptive term.....
Glass is an optically transparent material composed primarily of silica......

But yes, in a wider sense, the term "glass" can be a generic term, and it while can be made of different classes of materials, the term is generally recognized as the silica based material of which a window lite, windscreen, etc is manufactured.

Anyone, in this case Schumacher, should be as accurate as possible in their descriptive terms when making a claim. And the reasons for that are obvious.....

And thank you to 1/4 Miler for setting the record straight on material composition this windscreen.
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  #104  
Old 02-04-2012
anotheridiot anotheridiot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1/4 Miler View Post
The canopy's windscreen is not made from glass nor Lexan. It is made of a polycarbonate type material that is molded, hardened then anti-fog, etc. treated. The impact resistance, scratch resistance, etc. of the material is well documented by Standard ASTM Tests.

Note that the mounting of the windscreen to the lid frame is done in a very particular, sequenced manner so as not to induce stress into the windscreen that could cause later cracking ..... you don't just drill holes in it and then screw it onto the lid frame.

Any more particulars should come from Aerodine.
But this is exactly why they are dragging their feet. Personally, a big part of it is probably the fact that Aerodyne Composites Group Inc is not an official NHRA sponsor yet, and the contract still needs to be worked out with them. NHRA is not going to approve one source for making these things without getting their cut on sales, that is something we should all know by now. If they approve a canopy without just approving one source, they need to allow other drivers to do their own thing with their suppliers since DSR did what they wanted with their supplier, and specifics like type of materials would at least need to be detailed, and whatever advantage this has should also allow teams to come up with their idea of advantage, which would probably be a few designs and more bickering about them. Right now its not required so ruling on it creates more headaches for nhra. Like I said, its different if NHRA went around asking for prototypes for these things, its completely different than one showing up and expecting a stamp of approval.
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  #105  
Old 02-04-2012
anotheridiot anotheridiot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy View Post
Glass is an optically transparent material composed primarily of silica......

But yes, in a wider sense, the term "glass" can be a generic term, and it while can be made of different classes of materials, the term is generally recognized as the silica based material of which a window lite, windscreen, etc is manufactured.

Anyone, in this case Schumacher, should be as accurate as possible in their descriptive terms when making a claim. And the reasons for that are obvious.....


And thank you to 1/4 Miler for setting the record straight on material composition this windscreen.
Right, but whatever it is needs to be tested. Remember the einsteins that thought harder was better for chassis tubing? you dont add up the G forces, shake and things like harmonics that scrambled Eric Medlens brain (no disrespect, it was the doctors explanation) and how those forces have an effect on this material.

another thing about glass is its not really a solid, as many historic property restorers claim that glass is thicker on the bottom than the top. I mean standard jeep glass has clear thick film laminated to the glass would keep this or anything else from shattering into pieces
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  #106  
Old 02-04-2012
1/4 Miler 1/4 Miler is offline
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Aerodine makes the front & rear wings that most TFDs run so NHRA is very familiar with them. They also do a fair bit of indy car work as well as some F1 car fabrication. Additionally, they are FAA Certified to do aircraft repair ..... You don't hear much about them as they keep an Absolute CONFIDENTIAL Lid on their clients proprietary projects.
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  #107  
Old 02-04-2012
anotheridiot anotheridiot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1/4 Miler View Post
Aerodine makes the front & rear wings that most TFDs run so NHRA is very familiar with them. They also do a fair bit of indy car work as well as some F1 car fabrication. Additionally, they are FAA Certified to do aircraft repair ..... You don't hear much about them as they keep an Absolute CONFIDENTIAL Lid on their clients proprietary projects.
I didnt know about the wings, thanks. I am sure their engineers have as much knowledge in their pinky toes than anyone nhra has left, but nhra is down to suits that need to be insured and as many positives as this thing has, my devils advocate suggestions are still out there.

What I would love to read here is a story from Big about his struggles with the nhra and the canopy when he was on this road. That might shine alot more light on this. I doubt if any of the materials that Aerodine is using were even seen off of the area 51 base when big was doing this.
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  #108  
Old 02-04-2012
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The canopy looks to me like it is a vacuum formed acrylic maybe something like a jet fighter.

Would like to see some actual tests of this materials abilities... you know... take a big sledgehammer and smack it.
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  #109  
Old 02-04-2012
1/4 Miler 1/4 Miler is offline
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You can say whatever you want to about how it 'looks to you' but, no modern jet fighter's windscreen is made of acrylic material:

Poly(methyl methacrylate) (PMMA) is a transparent thermoplastic, often used as a light or shatter-resistant alternative to glass. It is sometimes called acrylic glass. Chemically, it is the synthetic polymer of methyl methacrylate. The material was developed in 1928 in various laboratories, and was first brought to market in 1933 by Rohm and Haas Company, under the trademark Plexiglas.[4] It has since been sold under many different names including Lucite and Perspex.

The often-seen spelling poly(methyl 2-methylpropanoate) with -an- is an error for poly(methyl 2-methylpropenoate), based on propenoic acid.

PMMA is an economical alternative to polycarbonate (PC) when extreme strength is not necessary. Additionally, PMMA does not contain the potentially harmful bisphenol-A subunits found in polycarbonate. It is often preferred because of its moderate properties, easy handling and processing, and low cost, but behaves in a brittle manner when loaded, especially under an impact force, and is more prone to scratching compared to conventional inorganic glass.

Also, you say that you'd 'like to see a sledgehammer test' of the windscreen ..... The dollars to date spent on ASTM Standard Testing by Certified Laboratories of the windscreen material and the rest of the enclosure material(s), by my guess, far exceeds your yearly income ... so, I would suggest that you Research what is really going on and understand how knowledgeable designers and engineers are trying to Save Lives (we're Tired of Attending our Friends Funerals and all that entails) before posting a derogatory post such as yours (Implyed by saying to you it looked like it was made of acrylic) about a Safety Device.

Given this Thread seems to be 'Headed South' by unknowledgeable contributors, I'm done providing Information ... Except to say that the TFC Funny Car Safety Enclosure System is well beyond the 'Planning Stage' and progressing ... Plus some other Driver Safety Systems for now open cars.

I'm sure Competion Plus will keep you'all Informed as to progress of these various Projects ..... From the outside.
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  #110  
Old 02-05-2012
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1/4 Miler .... i did not mean to offend.

I shouldn't have voiced an uninformed opinion. To me it looks like
a jet fighter canopy, but I certainly didn't mean that in any derogatory way.

As far as what materials it's made of i have no idea and i will freely admit that.

I for one value your contributions on this subject. It's not often that we get such
insider information about something as important as this could be for safety.

Don't leave because of my comments. I want to see this accepted by NHRA.
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