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  #11  
Old 01-02-2018
odspice14 odspice14 is offline
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Im positive if Pro Stock tv coverage was eliminated and during a race the Alky cars were ran just before Nitro that ratings would not be affected and the at track experience would be more enjoyable
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2018
Racemaster Racemaster is offline
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Originally Posted by McDowell Racing View Post
First, I think Pro Stock should be allowed to run carbs or FI not just one. Secondly, I disagree with the rule to allow any engine in any body, this is just helping to kill the class. They should have done what they did in years past, to give weight adjustments to each of the engine types which would allow fans to see their engines in the right cars and this in turn would give the dealerships some pride in their cars helping to promote some divisions to help develop their brand instead of killing certain brands. Just my two cents! I've been around drag racing since the 1950's and Pro Stock has always been my class to enjoy and I don't want it to go by the wayside. These teams probably have more engineering ability then just about any of the classes.
Good points. Once upon a time NHRA allowed the Chevies to run lighter than the Ford's.
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  #13  
Old 01-03-2018
HEMI_guy HEMI_guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Yvonne* View Post
I think he's right about one thing. The negativity has to be stopped or at least turned around some.

BUT I think the "you don't have to do anything but show up with your wallet and we'll give a car and engine" approach is sadly mistaken. Especially, for this class that has a history (as he even stated) of people who do the work themselves.
And that was just one of his contradictions.
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  #14  
Old 01-03-2018
Mac4264 Mac4264 is offline
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Originally Posted by a21stud View Post
It bothers me that Iíve turned so negative about the chances of Pro Stock ever returning to the importance it held for me during its first 20 years.

Thinking about it on New Yearís Day got me to putting my thoughts down. With Richard Freemanís revelation today that some of the Pro Stock payout is being moved to T/F tells me NHRA isnít waiting any longer. NHRA wants Pro Stock to either become a ďpay to playĒ like Pro Mod or prove that they can fill up the stands with people buying tickets to see Pro Stock. T/F and F/C (nitro) sells tickets.

I tried to put myself in the shoes of each person with a invested interest in Pro Stock and what their needs would be.
Do you agree with any of my assessment?

If I were a current Pro Stock:

Team Owner, I would throw an absolute fit if NHRA or anyone tried to reduce the classes prestige, TV time, class marketing, payout or do anything to make the stuff Iíve bought to run this class obsolete including changing rules to make others in the class more competitive.

Driver, I would push for more marketing of the class with more air time on TV while keeping current rules and the way the class is run so my driverís skill set had an advantage over anyone new.

Paid Crewman, I would want the rules to only change when it would increase demand and therefore value of my special Pro Stock skill set.

Car Builder, I would want rule and body changes every few years that mandated new full tube chassis race cars be purchased by every racer in the class. Very specific changes that only the few current Pro Stock chassis builders would have the experience and expertise to be instantly competitive on the track.

Sponsor, I would want more TV time, a guarantee that there wouldnít be any reduction in marketing of the class in any way or even an increase in marketing of any other class. I would want the public perception to be that Pro Stock is of very high value to all automotive enthusiasts.

Fan, (The fans are currently so varied I canít come to a fan consensus on Pro Stock.) Some fans want it to return to the 1990ís era, others want the `1970ís, some want it just like it is, some even want carbs and scoops back. Some fans hate the lump shaped bodies with sticker headlights, some hate the any ďapprovedĒ motor in any car. Some fans want an immediately switch to FS/XX bodies keeping todayís 500 cu in FI motors. Some fans want the current FS/XX Copoís, Drag Paks and Cobra Jets to immediately replace Pro Stock. Aaauughh!!

NHRA wants many more happy paid fans, more happy paid advertisers, more happy car owners, drivers and crews, a better NHRA bottom line because of Pro Stock and NHRA doesnít want a P/S Truck style law suit.

Conclusion: Nuts! Just Nuts!
One of your better post. So what are we suppose to do as owners drivers and fans.
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  #15  
Old 01-03-2018
Mac4264 Mac4264 is offline
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Originally Posted by Roger Gates View Post
The real difference is in 1 word of this statement - EFI needs to be changed to RPM Limiter. "I understand the slate got wiped clean with the move to EFI". Had the changes instead been any EFI and no Governor (max RPM limit) no matter what hood they use these things would be both faster and quicker, but the current car configuration would probably be literally flying and the field would be even shorter because those who could not spend what it takes to be a player for R&D would have to park their stuff or count on being 1st round "Runner Up". Changing to EFI did not curb performance - making an engine combination that produces the same power by limiting them to 85% of the RPM they had before is a big task for any method of induction, much less saying "You will now go to EFI - But the EFI you are going to use will be like comparing a Stromberg 97 to a 1350 CFM Dominator. Even the factories have figured out how to get a more efficient EFI system in the last 30 years so I'm pretty sure that heads up racers could make that same Carburetor analogy work to EFI. Another thing is after these things started getting loose so much I believe that they got a rule change to add down force which surely raises drag and does not lend itself to speed or better ET's. Add that to shorter wheelie bars that changes weight balance not only on launch but farther down the track and now you have the perfect recipe for not going faster or quicker.
Your right on the rev limiter part. But I have read and heard so much negative about the Holley system. Could it run a formula 1 motor probably not. But tell me what system would make one of these engines better. Iím all ears. Better yet I invite anyone to come down and dyno one of these systems if you can make more average power taking the Holley off and bolting xyz system on I will shut up and go away if not you owe me a dyno session and probably extra for my time Iím going to waste.
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  #16  
Old 01-04-2018
a21stud a21stud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac4264 View Post
One of your better post. So what are we suppose to do as owners drivers and fans.
I think the answer to your question ďWhat are we supposed to do as owners, drivers and fans?Ē is very complicated.

Owners and drivers needs are much different than fans. Plus the fans are fickle in apparently having no consensus of what they want Pro Stock to look like.

Plus every direction NHRA takes will make someone unhappy.
Going backward with the rules to #/ci would make the current owners mad. Going forward with new engine designes would make the current owners mad also. Reducing the purse will make them mad. Shortening the season for P/S would make them mad. Reducing to an 8 car field would make them mad. Moving to FS/XX would make them mad.

NHRA quietly reducing both Pro Stock TV time and print/internet marketing will make the team owners mad. No matter what NHRA does to change Pro Stock will make the car owners mad. If NHRA does nothing the owners might be happy, but if that ultimately hurts Pro Stock by reducing car count, fan respect and sponsor support, the car owners will be mad anyway.

Over the years NHRA has eliminated Modified Eliminator, AA/FA, Twin Engine Dragsters and Pro Stock Truck. Most of the car owners didn't just go away quietly but they did go. (Some with more money than others.)

Apparently NHRA didnít lose very many fans when they eliminated those classes and from their bottom line perspective it was a smart move. (With the exception of how they handled P/S Truck which could have gone much smoother with better management of the timeline of the P/S Truck elimination.)

Are todayís Pro Stock fans such a small percentage of paying ticket buyers that NHRA would be better off without them and the purse and expenses Pro Stock costs them? Only NHRA would have decent intel on that. Who really knows what the majority of fans want from NHRA's top naturally asperated class.

The various recent decisions, retractions and further changes from NHRA towards Pro Stock suggests to me they ultimately will do something. Hopefully its good for everyoneÖ but I don't see how it can be. Somebody's very likely going to be mad.
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a21stud only refers to the more common 21 stud flathead motors early drag racers coveted before the Chy. Hemi and sbc came along.
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  #17  
Old 01-04-2018
Racemaster Racemaster is offline
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Originally Posted by Mac4264 View Post
One of your better post. So what are we suppose to do as owners drivers and fans.
Switch over to production engines in the current chassis. LS, Hemi, Coyote.
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  #18  
Old 01-04-2018
Thecapnredfish Thecapnredfish is offline
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As a long time fan. All I want to see is cars that match the sticker and not all the same unless that's just what teams buy. I like seeing different cars.
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  #19  
Old 01-04-2018
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RVT1000 RVT1000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac4264 View Post
One of your better post. So what are we suppose to do as owners drivers and fans.
I'll start off by saying that I am a fan of the class and have been for a zillion years. I like a lot of things about it. But I also realize there are problems that have serious implications for the future of the class.

I think that the answer depends on how you look at the big picture.

If this (NHRA drag racing) is entertainment, then you have to find out what the fans want and give it to them. That's the bottom line if this whole thing is going to looked at as entertainment.

If all you want to do is race, then re-tag the car as Top Sportsman and race.

I'm sure that our views are very different. I'm looking at things strictly as a fan and you're looking at it as a guy who's trying to make a living.
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2018
Mac4264 Mac4264 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racemaster View Post
Switch over to production engines in the current chassis. LS, Hemi, Coyote.
Easier said then done. I have said at least 100 times on here that would be the nail in the coffin. Has nothing with us not wanting to do that but itís the biggest change over expense and then where is it going to leave people. You still havenít fixed the car either. Car is easier to fix and will get more mileage out of it from fans. If we do what we have done with this rule and then start to fix the cars maybe and itís a big maybe the factories will come back to the table and then we can use there money to fix the engine. This was my thought with this months back and why Iím was on board with it.
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