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  #171  
Old 06-17-2018
Twostep Twostep is offline
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Originally Posted by rognelson77 View Post
I always use this situation. It is the finals of the last trace of the year. you are racing a team member who has nothing to gain or loose except the payout for winning. Your car needs to win the race to win the championship, loose and no championship. I know what I would do. Just saying
A nearly identical situation once happened to Angelle Sampey (Seeling, Savoie, whatever) back in the day; she simply refused to line up against a points-leading team member in a final round - and the resulting blowback took years for her to get past. I hear what you're saying, but I'd order my team to race. That's why you're there - to RACE.
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  #172  
Old 06-17-2018
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comp 670 comp 670 is offline
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A nearly identical situation once happened to Angelle Sampey (Seeling, Savoie, whatever) back in the day; she simply refused to line up against a points-leading team member in a final round - and the resulting blowback took years for her to get past. I hear what you're saying, but I'd order my team to race. That's why you're there - to RACE.
We all say we would race UNTIL we are in that position and REALLY need the money from winning a championship etc.... So I get why its done but I don't feel its right.

I have always said if I had a team that was in that position we would race, I would never feel right after I threw a race for whatever reason....
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  #173  
Old 06-17-2018
A Poole A Poole is offline
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I was fine with the scoops and carbs & I still love the sound of of the P/S cars. It's really getting boring to the casual fan because there's no variation of the cars. To those of us who are true P/S fans and understand,the thrill will always be there but who knows how much longer?
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  #174  
Old 06-17-2018
HEMI_guy HEMI_guy is offline
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Pro Stock may sadly fade away eventually, but it won't be because of the lack of interest on the part of the people who work hard to keep it alive,

Yes it will be because of them. They are the ones that seem to think everything's just hunky dory and those of us that don't like what the class has become need to suck up a gut and deal with it and come back and embrace it as it is.

Last edited by HEMI_guy; 06-17-2018 at 09:41 PM.
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  #175  
Old 06-17-2018
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comp 670 comp 670 is offline
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Hemi, I am curious.. If you were 100% in charge and was able to rewrite the PS rules how YOU want them to be what would the general rules be? (type of chassis, body, engine/drivetrain)?
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  #176  
Old 06-17-2018
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NGNBLDR NGNBLDR is offline
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Originally Posted by rognelson77 View Post
Interesting as a follower of NHRA since Pros stocks inception, you say you love all the technology in the sport, but as a fan the story of this technology never gets to the fan, it is all behind covered up engines and hidden with slick covers.

So I ask, what is the current technology you are working on?. You will not say so your competitor does not get to use it. I understand you would not want to give away secrets. But this does hurt fan interest.

Also I think team racing has hurt the sport across all drag racing classes.

I always use this situation. It is the finals of the last trace of the year. you are racing a team member who has nothing to gain or loose except the payout for winning. Your car needs to win the race to win the championship, loose and no championship. I know what I would do. Just saying
I don't disagree with you and several years ago now. NHRA has us turn the cars around and get rid of the covers. I think that was a very positive move to attract fan appeal. When I do engine maintenance in the morning and in between rounds. I don't try and cover up the engine and whats under the valve covers. I'm not sure what more we can do for the fans next to just letting them walk around in the pits. Speaking of which, several of the teams do pull spectators in under the ropes and give the fans a tour of the pit. But beyond what you can see by eye, there is no reason to expose any so called "secrets".

There are arguments about "Team Racing" but I will say if it weren't for the teams. There would be no Professional Drag Racing at all. In TF & FC, what would happen if DSR, Force and or even Kalitta pulled out? In Pro Stock what if KB, Gray and or Elite faded away?

There might have been some sketchy races in the past with team racing. But I don't believe that there is one team out there now today that would throw a race for gain. These are professional teams and they all work very hard all year long to achieve their goals. There isn't one of them that would want to with a championship that was tainted or had an * next to it. No driver, owner and or team would want that...
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  #177  
Old 06-17-2018
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Originally Posted by Twostep View Post
Then what's your plan?

Ford and Mopar are out as far as Pro Stock racing; sponsor money has dried up bigly but you're complaining about all-Camaro and non-germaine engine/car combinations? So how is someone supposed to compete with a Ford or a Mopar when there's no factory support or money to refine Ford and Mopar engines to be competitive with DRCE-style engines?

There's lots of things pre-1980 I'd love to go back to, but we can't. We can't change the fact that young people are far more interested in the latest smartphone and who's who on Facebook than they are in NHRA Pro Stock, no matter what changes are made to the class. I've sat at many a national event and watched two kids sit there with their earplugs in place and text as two Pro-class cars are in the middle of a run....even the fuel cars. I like Factory Stock, too, but is fan participation any greater in that class? Nope. Maybe if they made the bodies all look like IPhone 9's....

I can't imagine anyone who considers variety and driver participation to be important factors in PS racing actually promoting traction control, but that's just me. First, I don't believe they need it and second, I don't believe it would react quickly enough and precise enough to actually help the cars. Third, if you're going to add electronic nannies, might as well just shove a robot behind the wheel and make it fully autonomous. The class is supposed to be PRO Stock, not AutoStock.

Pro Stock may sadly fade away eventually, but it won't be because of the lack of interest on the part of the people who work hard to keep it alive, and those of us who simply marvel at 500" NA doorslammers that run 210mph in a quarter mile, regardless of whose body and whose motor.

Just opinions from someone way up in the cheap seats.
I'll keep this simple.... Great Post!
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  #178  
Old 06-17-2018
HEMI_guy HEMI_guy is offline
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Originally Posted by comp 670 View Post
Hemi, I am curious.. If you were 100% in charge and was able to rewrite the PS rules how YOU want them to be what would the general rules be? (type of chassis, body, engine/drivetrain)?
Picture Factory Stoch Showdown but with P/S style chassis. Engine manufacturer matches body manufacturer. Maybe with any style trans desired. Paruty rules may be needed like in P/M.

But just a reset of the rules isn't enough. The car owners need a new approach and for that they need to look hard at what P/M is doing and form their own version of RPM. But I think my suggestion of that killed another "P/S in trouble" type thread. But ya'all need to form an org. to speak with one collective single voice that both works with NHRA and seeks out series and event sponsors. Heck, even T/S and T/D have their own series sponsor (Racing RV's).

This is not part of my answer to you, but it was pointed out earlier in the thread that fans don't run to the fence to see P/M run. I've seen varied versions of that myself. It will be interesting to see if the new 4 Q's and all 4 eleminations on Sun. have an effect on that. But my main reply to "they don't run to the fence for P/M any more or any less than P/S" is.... well P/M and P/M style racing is packing stands at local track events all over the country. P/M is even the top dogs of 2 separate series. Could P/S do that in it's current format? That's not implying my version of P/S would... but I bet it would stand a better chance at it than it could in it's current format.

Also, it was suggested that I don't "respect" the fact that P/S racers are able to run the ET's they do with 500" NA. That is incorrect and I indeed find it impressive as all get-out. But at the proverbial end of the day, that alone isn't enough to sustain the class for the long haul. Take a look again at the title and nature of the thread to see why so many think the class has become boring... even despite the closeness of the racing. The very fact this thread and others like it exist shows there's a problem. Burying heads in the sand and telling ticket paying fans to suck it up and deal with it and they should just come back and embrace it as-is is not a solid plan to get behind.
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  #179  
Old 06-17-2018
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comp 670 comp 670 is offline
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Picture Factory Stoch Showdown but with P/S style chassis. Engine manufacturer matches body manufacturer. Maybe with any style trans desired. Paruty rules may be needed like in P/M.

That would be cool, the tasca family actually built one of those with one of Larry Morgans Mustangs... The only problem is it would take YEARS to get the parity figured out and NHRA cant afford going thru that. (and most racers would shy away from being the first to try a certain combo until others have..) I feel that's the biggest reason they keep sticking with the current format.


I know if I was in charge of making a decision like that I would have ulcers bigtime.
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  #180  
Old 06-17-2018
Stefan2k4 Stefan2k4 is offline
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Originally Posted by HEMI_guy View Post
Despite fans all but ignoring the class. And if you don't care about fans, why even race at national events? Just go rent some tracks somewhere.... like golfers going to a golf course or joining a country club.
That might be the answer right there. Split the Pro Stock class off from the Mello Yello series and let them headline the Lucas oil sportsman series shows instead. It would solve a lot of problems. For one, it would solve the complaining about track prep. Remember Warren Johnson's complaints when NHRA only sprayed to 1000' because of tire chunking on the fuel cars. Stuff like this would no longer be a problem because they wouldn't be running at the same events as the nitro cars. It would be the best of both worlds for everyone.

Also JustinatAce had an excellent idea on page 3 of this thread. Basically what he suggested is just going to crate motors. Dirt late model and other forms of short track oval racing has taken this direction and it does seem to helped to cut cost. And it makes it so that anyone who wants to race can have a competitive engine. They could simply make a 602 crate engine the only legal engine. It's not like anyone in Pro Stoke nowadays builds their own engines anyway. Do not all the competitive cars buy or lease their engines from 1 or 2 engine builders? The only difference is now they'd be buying engines that everyone could afford instead of ridiculously expensive engines only a hand full of wealthy teams can afford. Maybe even run E85 instead of $10+ a gallon racing fuel. After all if these are "stock" vehicles, shouldn't they at least run a run that could be run in a truly stock vehicle?
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