What about a Competitive Ford in Pro Stock ! - Page 4

What about a Competitive Ford in Pro Stock !

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  • sharxsharx Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    Dan Davis needs to pull his head out of his a$$ and help some REAL Ford racers instead of the money Ford Racing throws at team Farce, I mean Force. (sorry couldn't help it!) I've looked the Ford Racing Parts catalog from front to back and I can't find one single part from John's car? I see some 10 year old Pro Stock heads and blocks. I can't seem to find any of the part of of Ashley's A/Fuel car either....? I wonder why? A fraction of the money Ford spends with Team Force would go along way in helping some Pro Stock teams. Plus as a sportsman I buy the trickle down tech from them. I bleed blue for Ford, but this makes me crazy! :mad:
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited December 2006
    Sharx your right on. Get with it Ford if you want your sales to improve. I like John Force but Ford would be better off with some of their money in Pro Stock and other Fords. Also some of their NASCAR monies could be better spent in drag racing.
  • sharxsharx Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    Just picked up a new Mustang brochure and guess whos pretty face is pushing the 2007 Ford Mustang??? Ms. Ashley Force. They had some statement that its like the "Ford powered Mustang dragster she earned her Funny Car licence in" These people don't have a clue! The only bright side is that I know the group of engineers and marketing folks from Team Mustang have supported Fun Ford Events, and I enjoyed a meal that they provided at Norwalk. But I still would love to see a GT 500 in Pro Stock with some help from Ford. That thing is one bad looking race car! I bet we see a Toyota or Nissan before Ford goes Pro Stock racing. They didn't even want to play when the trucks where running, and you know they had small block stuff that could have been competitive.:rolleyes:
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited December 2006
    ATTN: DOOR SLAMMER GUYS ON HERE!

    JF and family will generate 10 times as much, or MORE, publicity for FORD MOTOR COMPANY as compared to any Ford-sponsored Pro Stock car, or even a three-car Ford P/S team.

    Regarding if Ford parts are used on a AA/FC car, yes, the Ford "parts" are boxes of money. Big boxes!

    Who cares if Ford parts are used or not, it don't matter. Ford $$$ is used and that's all that's needed folks.

    Ford knows what it's doing with drag racing, they are on the 14X champion,and entire JFR team, the biggest name in NHRA history.

    Ashley Force is a goldmine.

    Pro Stock is a dying class.

    FLAME as needed....:p
    Pro Stock would be the last Pro class to die. It's a class that people can still relate too. If PS would somehow die it would be over for drag racing!! John Force wouldn't sell as many cars and parts as a Pro Stock Ford People just don't connect his Funny car with Ford parts and cars and believe me I'm a John Force fan. Oh, I just saw John Force run a 4.60 et at 330. I think I'll go down to my Ford dealer and pick one up. Get real??? But put a new Mustang PS out their in NHRA and you will immediately sell thousands of Ford Mustangs.
  • NotJamesBoosNotJamesBoos Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    I dont think Ford needs the NHRA to sell thousands of Mustangs
  • b.guggenmosb.guggenmos Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    No way it is a dying class. In fact I think that the opposite is true. Look at the car counts per field for each national event. There are many more Pro Stockers than TF or FC by far. Also, as others have stated there is new blood coming in and that usually means new sponsors. I think the average Joe can relate more to a Pro Stock that still resembles what it is based on than a F/C that looks absolutely nothing like a real car except for the headlights. Ford had so much positive exposure in the past from Pro Stock and I think there is a large fan base still out there waiting impatiently. I also agree that Force gets a ton of pr and for good reason but still Ford needs to spread it around a little. Pro Stock seems to be on an upward growth but each class has had ups and downs over the years. Sometimes not even enough to make a 16 car field. I don't have the data but I would bet that in the modern era there has never been a Pro Stock field where less than 16 cars showed up. Brian
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited December 2006
    Ford has kept the "Mustang Magic" alive all these years. If a customer knows nothing about drag racing (many do not) and hears something about "330 mile per hour Mustang!" that will perk up their ears, of course a "210 mile per hour Mustang!" also doesn't have a production engine in it, so that is a mute point, agreed?

    Besides, the last Ford Pro Stock was a goofy little Escort body, that did nobody any good.

    Thank goodness that Ford and GM and Mopar spends money on the sport.

    Pro Stock is losing entries per race, that is a fact.

    Hey if it were me, I'd love to see 64-Funny Cars and 32 Pro Stocks!

    But that ain't to go happen (again) anytime soon.
    When people here something about a 330 mile per hour Mustang they know it's not a real car and speed is only a part of what makes racing worth watching. How about side by side racing!! As far as a 64 Funny car field it would be a nightmare. You would have oil all over the track, especially from the lower funded cars. One round of racing would take about 5 hours. Fans would walk right away from drag racing. Back to PS the Mustang would relate well to the street version and be great for racing.
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited December 2006
    I agree that Ashley Force is a goldmine. Wouldn't it be saver for Ashley to drive a Pro Stock rather than a Funny Car? Certainly the competition would be tougher in Pro Stock but if it were my daughter I would push her in that direction. In addition her driving a Pro Stock Mustang would be a better way for Ford to sell parts and cars. John Force would also benefit making him more diversified with cars in two classes. This might make his sponsorship with Ford more secure?? Anyother thoughts.
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited December 2006
    Glidden stopped winning championships added to his losing the Ford sponsorship. If Force stops winning watch Ford to pull the plug. John Force has the power to pull off a Pro Stock sponsor from Ford. As far as Ashley going slower from Alky to PS; The Pro Stock racing is more exciting and competitive if she can hang with the big dogs. It would also be to John's advantage to go to Pro Stock so there would not be so many of his cars in Funny. You might as well change the class name from Funny to Force.
  • edited December 2006
    It would also be to John's advantage to go to Pro Stock so there would not be so many of his cars in Funny.

    You have got to be kidding...... I don't know of to many, if any, PS racers who got rich from racing PS. But John Force sure the hell did go from rags to riches from racing FC. Why in the world would he want a PS.

    PS is/was a cool class but lets get real it ain't and never will be as popular as Fuel Racing.
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited December 2006
    Bob you make a good point that should Force go to Pro Stock the transition would be very tough. She might have a chance to win if she could join a Ford Summit team?? Ashley seems to be a little intimidated by the Funny car but perhaps that's John scaring her with his claims that these cars can kill you. If it were my daughter I'd want her in something safer than a Funny Car!! If she could pull it off she would be the first female to win in PS. Of course Enders might get there first.
  • edited December 2006
    Larry, I'm going to make some assumptions, but I think they're good ones. Here they come. Force knows squat about Pro Stock. His teams no squat about Pro Stock. Even if they did he won't break up winning combos. Just because Ashley can drive a rail and MAYBE a Funny Car doesn't mean she could ever handle a Pro Stocker.

    Those were the assumptions. And if they're accurate what does it take, one or two years for him to get up to speed? That's 2 losing seasons. Does Ford stick around?

    I respectfully submit that it's a bad idea and will never happen.

    Force does not need to know alot about pro stock, he needs to do what he does in funny car which is hire the best crew chiefs to handle the cars while he gets the money and counts the beans. if a owner gets to hands on welll.....see snake or dsr's prostock operation. now maybe ashley force would'nt be the best choice for a driver but force could easily feild a team... and i think that maybe if a driver with a little personailty came in.... most ps guys are really just so monetone because they have no lives they spend thier every waking hour wrenching. then finding a sponsor to come in and drop ohhhh say two and a half compared to fifteen a cup team gets will be easy
  • NotJamesBoosNotJamesBoos Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    Hey Fordracer, where you been?

    Your post is pretty damn accurate regarding too much 'hands on'. But money does not buy success. It helps for sure, but there are a lot of high dollar racers out there that are not successful. You don't just go out there and get a crew chief and crew and win races.

    like DSR..........
  • RacemasterRacemaster Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    Ford has kept the "Mustang Magic" alive all these years. If a customer knows nothing about drag racing (many do not) and hears something about "330 mile per hour Mustang!" that will perk up their ears, of course a "210 mile per hour Mustang!" also doesn't have a production engine in it, so that is a mute point, agreed?

    Besides, the last Ford Pro Stock was a goofy little Escort body, that did nobody any good.

    Thank goodness that Ford and GM and Mopar spends money on the sport.

    Pro Stock is losing entries per race, that is a fact.

    Hey if it were me, I'd love to see 64-Funny Cars and 32 Pro Stocks!

    But that ain't to go happen (again) anytime soon.

    Escort a goofy little body. Tell that to the former IHRA Pro Stock champs who ran and some still run the Escort.
  • RacemasterRacemaster Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    Bob you make a good point that should Force go to Pro Stock the transition would be very tough. She might have a chance to win if she could join a Ford Summit team?? Ashley seems to be a little intimidated by the Funny car but perhaps that's John scaring her with his claims that these cars can kill you. If it were my daughter I'd want her in something safer than a Funny Car!! If she could pull it off she would be the first female to win in PS. Of course Enders might get there first.

    Greg Anderson said no to Dan Davis 3 years ago. He was even offered all engineering from RYR at the time. No Summit Ford.
  • Nitro-fumesNitro-fumes Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    sharx wrote:
    Dan Davis needs to pull his head out of his a$$ and help some REAL Ford racers instead of the money Ford Racing throws at team Farce, I mean Force. (sorry couldn't help it!) I've looked the Ford Racing Parts catalog from front to back and I can't find one single part from John's car? I see some 10 year old Pro Stock heads and blocks. I can't seem to find any of the part of of Ashley's A/Fuel car either....? I wonder why? A fraction of the money Ford spends with Team Force would go along way in helping some Pro Stock teams. Plus as a sportsman I buy the trickle down tech from them. I bleed blue for Ford, but this makes me crazy! :mad:

    Perhaps you need to pull your head out? Why would a Ford brochure have anything that is on John's car for your everyday car in it?

    I think I read an interview awhile back that Force has a machine shop in his facility that manufactures (with the help; technology and $ of Ford) parts for his teams. Last I saw they were the only Ford backed drivers, so why would they produce parts for other teams?

    But you are right on about the "farce" statement, I mean 14 championships is just luck. Good luck in life cynic, hope you enjoy racing from your lazy boy, sounds like the closest you will ever be.
  • Nitro-fumesNitro-fumes Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    Racemaster wrote:
    Greg Anderson said no to Dan Davis 3 years ago. He was even offered all engineering from RYR at the time. No Summit Ford.
    Maybe she could run a Ford Mustang in Super Gas! How does she seem intimidated? I have seen nothing but promise in her, through testing and when people ask her about it at the track. But there was that one episode of Driving Force (great source).
  • b.guggenmosb.guggenmos Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    Just for the heck of it I went back through all of the entered Pro Stocks for all of 2006 and 2005 NHRA national events. I was really bored. For some reason 2004 records are incomplete on the website. The average Pro Stock count for all 2006 events is 25.27 cars and for 2005 it is 27.76 cars per event. So I now have to agree with Mr. Maxwell that car counts are down but not by a huge number. As I totaled up the numbers it was interesting to see the car counts vary by track. U.S. Nationals by far the largest. Big surprise. Seattle and Sonoma seem to be the smallest car counts which is my neck of the woods. I did a quick look back at 2003 and 2004 seasons but did not do the counts. It takes awhile but it looks like there were alot more cars then.
    The new Mustang is a pretty cool looking car and even better in Pro Stock form. Fords do well in the IHRA big inch class. Maybe Robert Patrick will give NHRA a shot again? This has been quite a lively thread and I also do not think that John Force will ever have anything to do with Pro Stock. If anyone who read this forum works for JFR maybe they could ask him? Brian
  • sharxsharx Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    It seems as some are still under the spell of nitro fumes and think the world only turns on nitro. Most of the parts are what I call science fiction on those beasts. Pro Stockers develop parts that us sportsman racers actually use. Only a nut would say this class is dying! twenty to thirty cars at each event? Vs. 16-20 cars in the fuel classes. Lets see if the numbers are shrinking in those classes???? Before the pro stock truck dibacle they typically had 35-40 cars. Some left to run the trucks then many "set out" a few seasons while the lawsuit that no one talks about went through the court system. With Hammonds and others starting back I would say the class is hardly dying! The other thing that has hurt the class is NHRA turning a blind eye to dominate teams "pushing at best" flat out cheating at worst by some of the very well funded and factory backed teams. In fact it's my opinion the "wayne county" crazyness killed the factory backing of Glidden. The bottom line is that Pro-Stock is the "factory hot rods" not top fuel or their garish cousins the funny cars. Thats why I think Ford needs to help or produce the parts for REAL Ford racers. Just like Mopar and Gm Performance Parts do. My point is if Ford wants to sell Mustangs via JFR fine write the check from the Mustang Marketing budget and go to town. But if your writing the check from Ford Racing Parts, maybe JFR should actually use some of the parts. If the body is "the part" make it available to other teams, or modify it for the AA/FC. IT WON'T HAPPEN! :eek:
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited December 2006
    sharx wrote:
    It seems as some are still under the spell of nitro fumes and think the world only turns on nitro. Most of the parts are what I call science fiction on those beasts. Pro Stockers develop parts that us sportsman racers actually use. Only a nut would say this class is dying! twenty to thirty cars at each event? Vs. 16-20 cars in the fuel classes. Lets see if the numbers are shrinking in those classes???? Before the pro stock truck dibacle they typically had 35-40 cars. Some left to run the trucks then many "set out" a few seasons while the lawsuit that no one talks about went through the court system. With Hammonds and others starting back I would say the class is hardly dying! The other thing that has hurt the class is NHRA turning a blind eye to dominate teams "pushing at best" flat out cheating at worst by some of the very well funded and factory backed teams. In fact it's my opinion the "wayne county" crazyness killed the factory backing of Glidden. The bottom line is that Pro-Stock is the "factory hot rods" not top fuel or their garish cousins the funny cars. Thats why I think Ford needs to help or produce the parts for REAL Ford racers. Just like Mopar and Gm Performance Parts do. My point is if Ford wants to sell Mustangs via JFR fine write the check from the Mustang Marketing budget and go to town. But if your writing the check from Ford Racing Parts, maybe JFR should actually use some of the parts. If the body is "the part" make it available to other teams, or modify it for the AA/FC. IT WON'T HAPPEN! :eek:
    You make some excellent observations sharx. Let's hope someone is listening at Ford. We need a couple of Ford sponsored Pro Stocks and some sponsorship and parts for some of our sportsman. I think that NHRA should also pay the PS's out to about 22 positions in qualifying.
  • sharxsharx Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    Maybe Ford should drop Force and support sportsman racers more, yeah, that is what it's all about! NOT

    They could do that but it would not make any sense. Gee, let's see, a TV show star family VS. cars that don't get any exposure. Huh, that's is a real "toss up!"

    HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!

    James I never said that Funny car or Top Fuel was not popular, what I'm saying is that they JFR does not use Ford Racing Parts on any of his Funny Cars and Ashley's A/FD wouldn't know a Ford part if it sucked one down its injectors. So why would Ford Racing Parts budget money for an A/FD and even more money for a three car Funny Car team. Again that uses NOTHING they produce? I think JFR is tops in and 14 wins championships prove it. I also know that car does'nt run on nitro, it runs on cold hard cash! The fuel cars don't excite me personally but I do respect the class. Most sportsman racers that I race with on a weekly basis that buy parts from Mopar, GM Performance Parts, Ford Racing Parts and Jegs and Summit plus all the other high performance manufactures and suppliers pay very close attention to Pro Stock, the fuel cars "not so much" it doesn't relate to us. I'm sure NHRA and their market types love to think the two fuel cars are the only show, And every time you verbally masterbate to the word nitro you make it sound like no one cares about Pro Stock. I think your wrong!!! I think a ton of people do, and the people that do, BUY parts from Ford Racing Parts. So they, Ford Racing Parts should support Pro Stock, rather than the very nice, very well spoken, very pretty, and very famous daughter of the our holy Funny Car lord John Force. Let the Mustang Marketing team sponsor JFR. Ford Racing Parts and Dan Davis should be spending their budget developing the new blocks, heads, and what ever the BUYERS of their parts want and Need. So that people like the Cunninghams, the Patricks, Panella, and others that want to run a Ford Pro Stock can.;)
  • sharxsharx Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    And another thing since you "have me up on the chip" (that's a MSD two step for you nitro fans that don't know anything about that type stuff) if no one cares about seeing a competitive Ford Pro Stock, why have almost 9000 people on this forum read or looked at this topic. Why doesn't every one just skip it so they can read another post about Funny Cars and Top Fuel. Like the post about Impala to be the new body for the Chevrolet Funny car teams. Impala - Monte Carlo what makes the diff. The Monte is nothing more than a two door Impala, and guess what? funny cars don't have any anyhow! The difference is Impala marketing has money to spend, Monte Carlo doesn't, they are spending everything but the kitchen sink in Nascar. The moral of this store is that GM Performance Parts isn't writing the check, unlike the Blue Oval boys that are out of the Performance Parts budget!
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited December 2006
    sharx wrote:
    And another thing since you "have me up on the chip" (that's a MSD two step for you nitro fans that don't know anything about that type stuff) if no one cares about seeing a competitive Ford Pro Stock, why has almost 9000 people on this forum read or looked at this topic. Why doesn't every one just skip it so they can read another post about Funny Cars and Top Fuel. Like the post about Impala to be the new body for the Chevrolet Funny car teams. Impala - Monte Carlo what makes the diff. The Monte is nothing more than a two door Impala, and guess what? funny cars don't have any anyhow! The difference is Impala marketing has money to spend, Monte Carlo doesn't, they are spending everything but the kitchen sink in Nascar. The moral of this store is that GM Performance Parts isn't writing the check, unlike the Blue Oval boys are out of the Performance Parts budget!
    Sharx again your telling it like it is. Great post!!!!
  • b.guggenmosb.guggenmos Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    Good points Gary!

    One should remember that more often than not, when the fuel cars run the stands clear out like a firedrill is taking place.

    That is a fact.
    In the Northwest when the pro's run the stands are full. Never been to another national event. The stands empty out when the super class cars run. Me included. I figure it is a good time to wander the pits. Nothing more exiting than watching a car launch hard, fall on it's face and then go and run the same times over and over and over. But hat could be a another thread someday on throttle stop cars.
    It is enjoying seeing this thread grow and the interest it has generated. Brian
  • sharxsharx Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    Gary I agree NHRA needs to work harder to promote the the Pro Stock classes, and some of the other sportsman classes. Thats one reason I think bumping the field to 32 cars and running a Saturday Night Pro Stock Show at national events would help. I'm sure JFR gets a significant amount of funding from Castrol. I can't imagine Ford Racing Parts spending more money with JFR than Mopars total ad budget. Is that what your saying?? If so I'm even more upset. Do you think Mopar would support Funny Cars and Top Fuel if the engines in these cars had engines designed from big block Chevrolet or a Boss 429 instead of a HEMI? I doubt it. I don't see GM Performance Parts blazened on the side of Snakes fuel coupes or top fuel cars. Mopar spends money in the Fuel ranks because of the HEMI link. (I think this is a smart move) I realize that the blocks used are aftermarket Keith Black and such but they still call'm HEMI's. Ford Racing Parts / SVO had a catalog before JFR was with Ford. I'm looking for the email and mailing address for Dan Davis and Ford Racing Parts as soon as I find it I will post it. Ford is getting good bang for the buck from JFR, I just would like to see it come from Mustang marketing not the budget from Ford Racing Parts. Ford racers want and need new parts to keep up.
  • sharxsharx Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    Gary your right Ford does support the Fun Ford Weekends and they are great events. The fox body Mustangs are the 57 Chevy or 68 Camaro of Ford racing. My point is Ford marketing money vs. Ford Racing Parts money. I guess it doesn't matter what pocket it comes from, but as a business model I would want to promote my products if I was director of Ford Racing Parts. It would be nice to Have photos of JFR and all them wins and championships and relate those to parts in my catalog. Bracket racers and sportsman racers at NMRA, Fun Ford buy the parts they are trying to pedal. Not "the average NHRA fan" it's the average NHRA member/racer. With todays computer modeling and mold making a new block could be made in a couple months. I KNOW for a fact the new "HEMI" block used in pro stock was modified from several times from input coming from the teams using the block, Morgan, the Johnsons, and Glidden while at DSR. So I don't think the cost is nearly what it used to be with making changes to blocks. If Toby says they need a new block to sty up with the drce III and new Hemi I hope they can get it. I would love to see Ford back at the Factory Hot Rod Dance!
  • RacemasterRacemaster Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    I'm referring to "factory participation" and the factory races cars to help sell new cars, and using an Escort body (while more aerodynamic I'm sure) does not fair well with the "Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday" thought process.

    That team your'e talking about, independent i'm sure, not backed by Dearborn?

    Not a team. There were over 25 Escort ZX2's built for NHRA and IHRA Pro Stock competition. The CAD was done at Roush and paid for with Ford money.
  • sharxsharx Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    You maybe right. Of course here in Central Ohio most know, Larry Morgan, Dave Connolly, Mark Pawak, Ron Krisher, and all of the Coughlin Brothers, so maybe thats why I like Pro Stock? I've know many of these guys, worked with them raced with and against them and more. Hopefully 2007 will be the year more learn about the dragracing and how enjoyable all the classes are. BTW tell the salesman Ashley is the pretty face on the cover of the 2007 Mustang sales brochure, both the front and back.
  • RacemasterRacemaster Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    I never said I kept up with every detail of Ford-related Pro Stock topics. You're telling me there's a major-backed Ford effort out there?

    If that's the case, why was this thread even started?????

    The thread has overtones that FORD should not be blowing their wad on Force, in a nutshell. I stand behind my claim that Force and family will generate 10 times OR MORE and efforts that Ford would ever do in Pro Stock class.

    That's the REAL FORD facts.

    There is a Ford Pro Stock program for 07. It's in this thread. Go back and read it. All this talk of Force and what he means to Ford is old news. Stay on point about Pro Stock not Funny Car.
  • sharxsharx Senior Member
    edited December 2006
    Racemaster wrote:
    Not a team. There were over 25 Escort ZX2's built for NHRA and IHRA Pro Stock competition. The CAD was done at Roush and paid for with Ford money.
    I don't know how much CAD drawings Roush did for the Escort Zx2, I seem to remember the first car being built by Don Ness for Bob Panella, I rember Don telling me how impressed they (him and Panella) where with the car never being in the wind tunnel. I do remember that Roush helped with the Mustang funny car bodies that JFR uses. Roush also did work on the Charger bodies as well. Ford Racing hasn't supported any Pro Stock effort since the Glidden days. And I think that is true for the IHRA ranks also. Charlie Taylor once told me they got zero support from Ford or Ford Racing and that was when they had won the championship. It looks like Kaase is only taking on new GM and Mopar teams. So it looks like we may be seeing the end of mountain motor Fords in IHRA:(

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