What about a Competitive Ford in Pro Stock ! - Page 6

What about a Competitive Ford in Pro Stock !

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  • b.guggenmosb.guggenmos Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Thanks Brian.
    Of course I forgot to look for the Waltrip book today.

    Another good one is Mark Donohue's "The Unfair Advantage". It is a classic of his and Roger Penske's day's racing Trans Am. There was pretty rampant cheating in Trans Am's past.

    EE in a Ford. Don't know about that but when she was in Seattle where I get to see the Pro's she had alot of fans and she spent alot of time with them. Love her or hate her I saw a whole lot of young fans at her trailer that might be NHRA Pro Stock fans forever. Good for the sport. Brian
  • KileKile Member
    edited January 2007
    The notion that Team Force should not get Ford sponsorship dollars because they do not use Ford parts is laughable. Besides the NHRA required castings, M-6010-A500 (block) and M-6049-E460 (head) and maybe a FL-1HP oil filter please list other parts can you find in the FMS catalogue that is used on a current day NHRA or IHRA PS car.

    No longer is the class as it began with body-in-white type construction with real factory parts. PS cars are now purpose built vehicles covered with the flavor of the year carbon-fiber, regardless of the manufacturer. With overhang requirements, stretched fenders, body aero- liberties, and swoopy high rise flat hood surfaces it doesn’t really matter what “body” is hung over the tubes.

    Bolted to those tubes are the generally same 4-link bars holding up the generally same 9” Ford derived differential being spun by a class-typical transmission.

    As the class evolves, racers eventually hit upon the same secrets to cover the distance the shortest amount of time. So the cars all evolve to look the same, much like their TF and FC counterparts.

    So the difference must be the power-plant. With bore spacing limitations a block is a block, is a block; or so thought Chrysler as they tried to pass off GM stuff as their own a few years ago. Now that all the internals are on a weight program, even the rotating assemblies can be almost identical.

    So, it must be the heads. But are the accepted Sonny’s GM hemi heads (IHRA side of things) really Boss Ford knock-offs? But just how alike are the Ford wedge heads to the DRCE castings? And the Chrysler HEMI is really a hemispherical combustion chamber? With all heads being just a hunk of aluminum anyway, should the real discussion be about plug placement, chamber shape and runner length?

    It appears the only deterrent to a COMPETITIVE Ford in (NHRA) Pro Stock is the willingness of car owners to support an R&D program from their own pockets or by finding outside sources of funding. Please respect Jim Cunningham and Hurley Blakney for doing just that with their programs.

    As an example I remind you of Vince Forcade. He rented the Hurley Blakney Escort that sat idle for almost a year, qualified it #12 and took out #5 WJ (6.912 to a 6.919) before losing to Larry Morgan in the 2nd round. This was the Panella powered car that with limited track time went to a final round with Scott Geoffrion a year earlier. That says a Ford can be NHRA competitive, doesn’t it?
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited January 2007
    As presented, PRO STOCK IS BORING.

    What that means is this: national events are set up where the T/F and F/C cars run first, then after all the exciting smoke, noise, impressive times and unreal speeds are lit up on the scoreboards, they pull out these quiet, stock-looking mousie cars that race --- Pro Stock.

    They are slow and too quiet as compared to the real headline cars of drag racing, Nitro Burners!

    Sure there's some close races, so is there in the Super Gas class, don't mean everyone wants to sit through it all.

    Maybe the Pro Stocks would be the headliners if they ran with the Sportsman classes, make P/S the top dog as compared to Super Gas and Super Street. Of course they should not be part of Sunday, save that for the big boys.

    Pro Stock on Sat, the Nitro Super Stars on Sunday.

    Hey, that's the ticket!

    Just think if all the "brains" of P/S would direct their attention to running a fuel car, all that R&D could actually go to something that the crowds (and TV audience) would love
    32 F/C category --- that would make drag racing more on same level with NASCAR, as in bigger draw to the public.

    NHRA simply has too many classes on Sunday.
    In a poll 2 years ago a poll was run on the NHRA site. As I recall the poll said which Pro class will you be following the closest. Funny Car 1st, Pro Stock 2, Top Fuel 3 and Bike 4. I'm sure a lot of people were shocked by Pro Stock beating out TF. Larry Morgan and several Pro Stock drivers said I told you so!!!! NHRA realizes that Top Fuel leaves a lot to be desired. TF is a poor excuse for close racing. Its strength is the sound and speed but little substance in its competitive racing. At the Pomona opening race THE LOSING ET FIRST ROUND WAS 11.43. The Espn announcers and fans at Pomona were in shock over this discussing performance!!!The Top Fuel fields at times are not even filled. Maybe 13 or 14 at times. There are times went a 11.00 et will get you into the field at some events. To many oil downs and smoking the tires. I was at Maple Grove a few years ago with a Nascar friend. After the 1st round of a tire smoking TF he said you call this racing???This is boring. Fortunately he stayed for Funny, PS, and the Bikes. He enjoyed these classes and enjoyed the remaining racing. He also enjoyed the Super Stocks and Stocks. NHRA has spent a lot of time trying to convince us that TF is a top notch Pro class. But is it really ???? The competition is very weak. Let's all hope that the racing improves!!!When you watch Pro Stock your watching the best racers and the best racing.
  • RacemasterRacemaster Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Kile wrote:
    The notion that Team Force should not get Ford sponsorship dollars because they do not use Ford parts is laughable. Besides the NHRA required castings, M-6010-A500 (block) and M-6049-E460 (head) and maybe a FL-1HP oil filter please list other parts can you find in the FMS catalogue that is used on a current day NHRA or IHRA PS car.

    No longer is the class as it began with body-in-white type construction with real factory parts. PS cars are now purpose built vehicles covered with the flavor of the year carbon-fiber, regardless of the manufacturer. With overhang requirements, stretched fenders, body aero- liberties, and swoopy high rise flat hood surfaces it doesn’t really matter what “body” is hung over the tubes.

    Bolted to those tubes are the generally same 4-link bars holding up the generally same 9” Ford derived differential being spun by a class-typical transmission.

    As the class evolves, racers eventually hit upon the same secrets to cover the distance the shortest amount of time. So the cars all evolve to look the same, much like their TF and FC counterparts.

    So the difference must be the power-plant. With bore spacing limitations a block is a block, is a block; or so thought Chrysler as they tried to pass off GM stuff as their own a few years ago. Now that all the internals are on a weight program, even the rotating assemblies can be almost identical.

    So, it must be the heads. But are the accepted Sonny’s GM hemi heads (IHRA side of things) really Boss Ford knock-offs? But just how alike are the Ford wedge heads to the DRCE castings? And the Chrysler HEMI is really a hemispherical combustion chamber? With all heads being just a hunk of aluminum anyway, should the real discussion be about plug placement, chamber shape and runner length?

    It appears the only deterrent to a COMPETITIVE Ford in (NHRA) Pro Stock is the willingness of car owners to support an R&D program from their own pockets or by finding outside sources of funding. Please respect Jim Cunningham and Hurley Blakney for doing just that with their programs.

    As an example I remind you of Vince Forcade. He rented the Hurley Blakney Escort that sat idle for almost a year, qualified it #12 and took out #5 WJ (6.912 to a 6.919) before losing to Larry Morgan in the 2nd round. This was the Panella powered car that with limited track time went to a final round with Scott Geoffrion a year earlier. That says a Ford can be NHRA competitive, doesn’t it?

    Good to see somebody remembers what this thread was all about.
  • b.guggenmosb.guggenmos Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Kile wrote:
    The notion that Team Force should not get Ford sponsorship dollars because they do not use Ford parts is laughable. Besides the NHRA required castings, M-6010-A500 (block) and M-6049-E460 (head) and maybe a FL-1HP oil filter please list other parts can you find in the FMS catalogue that is used on a current day NHRA or IHRA PS car.

    No longer is the class as it began with body-in-white type construction with real factory parts. PS cars are now purpose built vehicles covered with the flavor of the year carbon-fiber, regardless of the manufacturer. With overhang requirements, stretched fenders, body aero- liberties, and swoopy high rise flat hood surfaces it doesn’t really matter what “body” is hung over the tubes.

    Bolted to those tubes are the generally same 4-link bars holding up the generally same 9” Ford derived differential being spun by a class-typical transmission.

    As the class evolves, racers eventually hit upon the same secrets to cover the distance the shortest amount of time. So the cars all evolve to look the same, much like their TF and FC counterparts.

    So the difference must be the power-plant. With bore spacing limitations a block is a block, is a block; or so thought Chrysler as they tried to pass off GM stuff as their own a few years ago. Now that all the internals are on a weight program, even the rotating assemblies can be almost identical.

    So, it must be the heads. But are the accepted Sonny’s GM hemi heads (IHRA side of things) really Boss Ford knock-offs? But just how alike are the Ford wedge heads to the DRCE castings? And the Chrysler HEMI is really a hemispherical combustion chamber? With all heads being just a hunk of aluminum anyway, should the real discussion be about plug placement, chamber shape and runner length?

    It appears the only deterrent to a COMPETITIVE Ford in (NHRA) Pro Stock is the willingness of car owners to support an R&D program from their own pockets or by finding outside sources of funding. Please respect Jim Cunningham and Hurley Blakney for doing just that with their programs.

    As an example I remind you of Vince Forcade. He rented the Hurley Blakney Escort that sat idle for almost a year, qualified it #12 and took out #5 WJ (6.912 to a 6.919) before losing to Larry Morgan in the 2nd round. This was the Panella powered car that with limited track time went to a final round with Scott Geoffrion a year earlier. That says a Ford can be NHRA competitive, doesn’t it?
    Very well writen and I agree 100%.

    At times this thread has kind of gotten off track but you have steered it right back where it belongs with this post.

    I hope the Cunninghams are getting somewhere. The winter "off' season is winding down. Could we get an update of progress? Brian
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited January 2007
    Very well writen and I agree 100%.

    At times this thread has kind of gotten off track but you have steered it right back where it belongs with this post.

    I hope the Cunninghams are getting somewhere. The winter "off' season is winding down. Could we get an update of progress? Brian
    Your right about the thread getting away from the Ford Pro Stock but all of these posts have kept the thread alive. The one thing that most of us agree on is that we want at least one FORD PRO STOCK in NHRA!
  • b.guggenmosb.guggenmos Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    The sidetracking has been lively at times and interesting. You are right in that it keeps the thread alive as we Ford fans are in the minority.

    I think you are wrong about boring Pro Stock and exciting Top Fuel. Seems backwards. Have you ever stood by an idling Pro Stock and listened to rumpity rumptiy idle or been at the traps at 10k rpm. That is music to my ears. Brian
  • NotJamesBoosNotJamesBoos Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    The sidetracking has been lively at times and interesting. You are right in that it keeps the thread alive as we Ford fans are in the minority.

    I think you are wrong about boring Pro Stock and exciting Top Fuel. Seems backwards. Have you ever stood by an idling Pro Stock and listened to rumpity rumptiy idle or been at the traps at 10k rpm. That is music to my ears. Brian


    Music to my ears is either Led Zeppelin or a BB/FC in the traps at 9500 or so RPM's with the blower moving around 30% faster than the engine.
  • PrestagedPrestaged Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    gary4205 wrote:
    Better question is: Have you ever stood between two nitro burners at launch?

    As much as I like a "rumpity idle", there is NO comparison.

    Yes I have. And ther IS a comparison, at least to me.
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited January 2007
    My mother once said the only thing that is more exciting than the sound a Nitro Car is the sound of a Pro Stock.
  • E BRUNSE BRUNS Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    OH NO, we can't let this thing get this close and fold up now !!!!!!!!.........Yep, Ford deffinately needs a car (or several!!!) running in P/S.........The biggest question I suppose, is who is going to be the one to struggle for a year or two to become that (those) person ??????...........Now, about my bike.......NAH, just kidding.........E
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited January 2007
    Dyno Don gave me so many wonderful racing moments. In 71 he beat Mike Fons in the finals at Englishtown for Fords 1st PS victory. His mavericks were very fast but many times fell to breakage or the motors seemed to tire during elimations. He also had some major success at IHRA and AHRA, I've always wondered why the maverick seemed to work better than Sox's PS during match races. His maverick recorded the quickest ET ever recorded by a 427 and 426 block in PS at NHRA.. It was at Gainesville when Ken Dondaro was running 9.40 something. When PS went to the 500 inch motors I read that Bob Glidden had Kaase build one of his first motors? Kaase was Dynos engine man so was Glidden trying to find out what they knew??Can anyone confirm this?? When Dyno put down the rosin dust it seemed that the Maverick exploded off the line. Could the better traction for the high RPM maverick have given him an advantage? I loved to here that overhead cammer when th R's came up.
  • b.guggenmosb.guggenmos Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    I may drive and race a Vette but I'm Ford at heart. In '03 I wanted a Cobra but they were being sold before they were built. I was not going to buy a car I couldn't see and touch.

    And I must say I'm very happy with the outcome. Out the door the Vette has the performance hands down. Also has an automatic tranny which is required for consistency.

    GM and Ford are missing the boat. They could sell a lot more of the performance cars if they offered them with an auto.

    They also have a problem with NHRA. The new Z06 stock will run 10.80. Cars faster than 11.50 must have a roll bar. NHRA, GM and Ford should be tallking to resolve these issues.
    I agree with you Bob. I may bracket race a 65 Comet Cyclone but at the drags I enjoy watching all of the makes of cars. A nice car is a nice car.

    That is the point of this thread. We have Chevrolets, Pontiacs, Mopars but no Fords in Pro Stock. One is trying without factory support.It will be good for everybody if their is more diversity in the class.

    I own shares of Ford stock which has really struggled recently. So has GM and DaimlerChrysler. All of the American car companies are trying to get it together and be competitive in the world market. Racing is a huge market be it Nascar, F1 or NHRA drag racing. Ford needs to invloved with more than John Force. We need Fords in Pro Stock. Brian
  • NotJamesBoosNotJamesBoos Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Its hard to promote something to the masses thats soo expensive and an aquired taste. The people that want to race a fast car know where to get the parts.
  • edited January 2007
    Let's stick to the subject folks, nobody cares about Ford as a Pro Stock entry.
    "What about a Competitive Ford in Pro Stock".....was over 300 replies, now down to 285 for some reason with over 12,000 views...nope nobody cares........;)

    As far as an update...we are working very hard and making progress, and Ford Racing has been very helpful.

    I will have more to say towards the end of the month, I appreciate everybody's support and ask for just a little more patience.
  • b.guggenmosb.guggenmos Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Let's stick to the subject folks, nobody cares about Ford as a Pro Stock entry.
    Mr. Maxwell

    Why even make a statement like this? It serves no usefull purpose other than to make peple respond and defend this thread. If you don't care about a Ford in Pros Stock that is fine and your choice. Why do you even bother to post on this issue? Just ignore this thread and let the rest of us get some usefull information from it.

    Good luck Tom Sweeney and Cunningham Motorsports. I think we all are looking forward to hearing about your progress when you can report. Brian
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited January 2007
    Good luck Cunningham Motor Sports. Were hoping for a consistent qualifying Ford.
  • ford1ford1 Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Toby wrote:
    "What about a Competitive Ford in Pro Stock".....was over 300 replies, now down to 285 for some reason with over 12,000 views...nope nobody cares........;)

    As far as an update...we are working very hard and making progress, and Ford Racing has been very helpful.

    I will have more to say towards the end of the month, I appreciate everybody's support and ask for just a little more patience.

    Well I cant wait to see some photos!! Good luck to you guys this year!!;)
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited January 2007
    I hope by mid-season we could see some 6.60 ets out of this Ford? Remember the days when the announcer would say; " How many want the Ford, now how many want the Chevrolet." And the crowd roared!!!!Come on Bob Frey get the crowd on their feet!!
  • b.guggenmosb.guggenmos Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Go Ford!!!
  • b.guggenmosb.guggenmos Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Could make a Pro Stock. I know the Mustang may not be as aerodynamic but it sure looks cool in Shelby red.

    I rented a Focus this summer and in Northern Colorado I had the little bugger at 90 to 103 mph and still got 30 mpg! Brian
  • E BRUNSE BRUNS Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    OK, I know I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree, after all I ride a bike sometimes...........But just out of curiousity and nothing more, why is this thread getting smaller and smaller ???????..........I would have thought it would just stay the same.........I know there must be a perfectly good reason, but I guess I'm just too dense to understand it.........Sorry, no big arguments or anything.........Just curious..........E
  • b.guggenmosb.guggenmos Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Was near 300? The number does not really matter but that is weird. Still look forward to any info we get though. Brian
  • RacemasterRacemaster Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Heard that NHRA put the Ford Hemi head back on the approved list for Pro Stock.
  • b.guggenmosb.guggenmos Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Does that mean that the engine that Billy Glidden is supposed to have legal?
  • Rich_1028Rich_1028 Member
    edited January 2007
    It would be nice to see a ford in pro stock(nhra)
    I do like the looks of the mustang that the ihra is using.
    I'm a chevy guy,but I think it would be great for the sport,and the car manufacters to have more in the show than just gm,and mopar.

    18 pages and counting..
  • techrat_77techrat_77 Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Rich_1028 wrote:
    It would be nice to see a ford in pro stock(nhra)
    I do like the looks of the mustang that the ihra is using.
    I'm a chevy guy,but I think it would be great for the sport,and the car manufacters to have more in the show than just gm,and mopar.

    18 pages and counting..
    I totally agree....the competition between brands is a big "hook" for the casual fan.

    This thread was one of the hottest on the entire 'net, but it was grounded.
  • ford1ford1 Senior Member
    edited January 2007
    Does that mean that the engine that Billy Glidden is supposed to have legal?


    If it was that would be great to see!!!
  • larrydavis427larrydavis427 Banned
    edited January 2007
    Any more heard about Cunningham Ford?

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